BillP. wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:02 am How bout if Arizona had pulled that last number? Wonder how the NHL would react to that? Does that save hockey in AZ? Would Auston Matthews really sign as a free agent then and go home?

The Coyotes have made it out of the second round much more recently than the Leafs, so maybe he'll do it anyway.

Dave's a mess wrote:

BillP. wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:02 am How bout if Arizona had pulled that last number? Wonder how the NHL would react to that? Does that save hockey in AZ? Would Auston Matthews really sign as a free agent then and go home?

The Coyotes have made it out of the second round much more recently than the Leafs, so maybe he'll do it anyway.

So here's the draft pick outlook for the first 3 rounds each of the next 2 years:

2022:
1st Round- 10, 27 (unless Toronto comes back) and 25-32 (depending on Dallas's finish)
2nd- None
3rd- 74, 76 (OTT)
2023:
1st- Their Own
2nd- Their Own, Toronto's
3rd- Their Own, NYR's

They have all of their own 4-7s each year. All of this is to say, there are plenty of trade chips for wheeling and dealing. Armstrong has historically been willing to both trade up/down depending on how the board is shaking out. He's also been very willing to trade picks for players or make bad contracts go away. I'd be fairly surprised if we ended up making all 3 first round selections this year. It seems unlikely that any of the teams in the top 5 would be willing to trade back, and I think the value of moving up a couple picks for say Philly or Washington's slot are highly dependent on what each team's scouts think of the prospects. Should be fun!

In a hypothetical world, you're the GM of the Ducks/Hawks...would you rather have Bedard or Zegras, McTavish, Fantilli?

Let the mock drafts begin.

https://theathletic.com/4500204/2023/05 ... lackhawks/

10. St. Louis Blues: Oliver Moore, C, USA U-18 (NTDP)
The Blues have added speed to their roster with Jordan Kyrou and Robert Thomas, and they’ll have a lot more with Moore. The 5-foot-11 center is considered the best skater in the draft, and making that label even more attractive is that it’s game-situation speed, in his edgework as much as straight-line speed. Moore also likes to hunt pucks, impose his will on the game, and oftentimes he is a difference-maker. He’s played the past two seasons with the U.S. development program, where he was on the second line and second power-play unit. He’s committed to the University of Minnesota, where he’ll be teammates with fellow Blues prospect Jimmy Snuggerud next season. Moore and Snuggerud could be teammates in St. Louis, too, and if so, the Blues could be looking at a future with Thomas and Moore at center for years to come. —Jeremy Rutherford

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: In a hypothetical world, you're the GM of the Ducks/Hawks...would you rather have Bedard or Zegras, McTavish, Fantilli?

Ducks for sure, but they still could of had Zegras, McTavish and Bedard

Hawks are probably 4 years away of turning into a contender ----- don't ya think?

How bout the Blues? Let's say they did get Bedard. How fast does that put the Blues back as a Cup contender? Next year? Year after? They'd of been close.

BillP. wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 11:40 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: In a hypothetical world, you're the GM of the Ducks/Hawks...would you rather have Bedard or Zegras, McTavish, Fantilli?

Ducks for sure, but they still could of had Zegras, McTavish and Bedard

Hawks are probably 4 years away of turning into a contender ----- don't ya think?

How bout the Blues? Let's say they did get Bedard. How fast does that put the Blues back as a Cup contender? Next year? Year after? They'd of been close.

Well lets expand, you're the Hawks GM and the Ducks offer you that trade, you taking it?

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

BillP. wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 11:40 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: In a hypothetical world, you're the GM of the Ducks/Hawks...would you rather have Bedard or Zegras, McTavish, Fantilli?

Ducks for sure, but they still could of had Zegras, McTavish and Bedard

Hawks are probably 4 years away of turning into a contender ----- don't ya think?

How bout the Blues? Let's say they did get Bedard. How fast does that put the Blues back as a Cup contender? Next year? Year after? They'd of been close.

Well lets expand, you're the Hawks GM and the Ducks offer you that trade, you taking it?

Oh, you offering a trade? I think if your the Hawks, you take that deal. But I don't think Anaheim would even offer it.

Bedard will get a career ending injury in his first season

CaptSMRT wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 2:16 pmBedard will get a career ending injury in his first season

*BUT* he will use his signing bonus to buy the Hawks franchise, move it to Houston, and win the Stanley Cup in their first season. Karma is sometimes a friendly bitch.

A small peak into Armstrong's mindset regarding the later 2 first round picks after the lottery:

“I thought going in that if we had won the lottery, that would’ve changed the way we approach this draft,” he said. “You would have a first-overall pick that would be the centerpiece of your retool or rebuild, but he’s still going to be 18 years old. So we might have been more likely to keep those (late) picks because you have something there that’s 18. We’re not going to build around the 10th pick in this year’s draft. He’s going to be part of whatever we build. So that’s taken one part of the equation out, and now we have to decide what we do with those later picks.

He later said the odds are pretty evenly split between making both picks, trading one for an NHL player, and trading one for 2 2nds. This came from an interview with JR this week at the Athletic.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:02 am A small peak into Armstrong's mindset regarding the later 2 first round picks after the lottery:

“I thought going in that if we had won the lottery, that would’ve changed the way we approach this draft,” he said. “You would have a first-overall pick that would be the centerpiece of your retool or rebuild, but he’s still going to be 18 years old. So we might have been more likely to keep those (late) picks because you have something there that’s 18. We’re not going to build around the 10th pick in this year’s draft. He’s going to be part of whatever we build. So that’s taken one part of the equation out, and now we have to decide what we do with those later picks.

He later said the odds are pretty evenly split between making both picks, trading one for an NHL player, and trading one for 2 2nds. This came from an interview with JR this week at the Athletic.

That's...interesting and sort of the opposite of what I would have expected with regard to Bedard. I would have thought landing him would've put the Blues right back into, okay we are immediately contenders again screw a rebuild, lets trade these other picks for an NHL player. Where as the 10th pick is likely not going to come in and be a PPG player next year or even the year after so that'll likely but the team more into a 3 year plan mode and more likely to use on players that can come along at the timeframe of whoever they get at 10.

I trust myself more than Army.

Wheeler Mock: https://theathletic.com/4498815/2023/05 ... -fantilli/

Some interesting notes. He has Will Smith going 3. Michkov 5 but thinks the Habs would prefer a C or D. Thinks Reinbacher goes in the 5-8 range.

10. St. Louis Blues: Zach Benson, LW, Winnipeg Ice
My ranking: No. 6

When teams have to put their chips on the table, small wingers tend to fall on draft day. I don’t think Benson will fall outside of the top 10 though, and he’s also not anything like the classic small wingers who tend to. Despite his size, he is a universally well-liked player whose two-way game and competitiveness have become as much his calling card as his high-end skill. He’s a playmaker and a driver and would be a great get for a Blues team that needs both. My only reservation in this call is that they do have their fair share of wingers on the way in Jimmy Snuggerud, Jake Neighbours and likely Zachary Bolduc. I could see them going after a Dvorsky, a Moore or a Danielson here as a result. But Benson’s too good a player to linger past this.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wheeler Mock: https://theathletic.com/4498815/2023/05 ... -fantilli/

Some interesting notes. He has Will Smith going 3. Michkov 5 but thinks the Habs would prefer a C or D. Thinks Reinbacher goes in the 5-8 range.

10. St. Louis Blues: Zach Benson, LW, Winnipeg Ice
My ranking: No. 6

When teams have to put their chips on the table, small wingers tend to fall on draft day. I don’t think Benson will fall outside of the top 10 though, and he’s also not anything like the classic small wingers who tend to. Despite his size, he is a universally well-liked player whose two-way game and competitiveness have become as much his calling card as his high-end skill. He’s a playmaker and a driver and would be a great get for a Blues team that needs both. My only reservation in this call is that they do have their fair share of wingers on the way in Jimmy Snuggerud, Jake Neighbours and likely Zachary Bolduc. I could see them going after a Dvorsky, a Moore or a Danielson here as a result. But Benson’s too good a player to linger past this.

thanks for the insight

BillP. wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 10:50 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wheeler Mock: https://theathletic.com/4498815/2023/05 ... -fantilli/

Some interesting notes. He has Will Smith going 3. Michkov 5 but thinks the Habs would prefer a C or D. Thinks Reinbacher goes in the 5-8 range.

10. St. Louis Blues: Zach Benson, LW, Winnipeg Ice
My ranking: No. 6

When teams have to put their chips on the table, small wingers tend to fall on draft day. I don’t think Benson will fall outside of the top 10 though, and he’s also not anything like the classic small wingers who tend to. Despite his size, he is a universally well-liked player whose two-way game and competitiveness have become as much his calling card as his high-end skill. He’s a playmaker and a driver and would be a great get for a Blues team that needs both. My only reservation in this call is that they do have their fair share of wingers on the way in Jimmy Snuggerud, Jake Neighbours and likely Zachary Bolduc. I could see them going after a Dvorsky, a Moore or a Danielson here as a result. But Benson’s too good a player to linger past this.

thanks for the insight

If the Habs would prefer a Center and Michkov is on the board, I'm making that call to move up if I'm Army. Habs can get their center at 10 where the value matches up a bit more with Danielson/Moore etc. Blues get the 2nd best player in the draft at 5 and we just have to have patience.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

BillP. wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 10:50 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wheeler Mock: https://theathletic.com/4498815/2023/05 ... -fantilli/

Some interesting notes. He has Will Smith going 3. Michkov 5 but thinks the Habs would prefer a C or D. Thinks Reinbacher goes in the 5-8 range.

10. St. Louis Blues: Zach Benson, LW, Winnipeg Ice
My ranking: No. 6

When teams have to put their chips on the table, small wingers tend to fall on draft day. I don’t think Benson will fall outside of the top 10 though, and he’s also not anything like the classic small wingers who tend to. Despite his size, he is a universally well-liked player whose two-way game and competitiveness have become as much his calling card as his high-end skill. He’s a playmaker and a driver and would be a great get for a Blues team that needs both. My only reservation in this call is that they do have their fair share of wingers on the way in Jimmy Snuggerud, Jake Neighbours and likely Zachary Bolduc. I could see them going after a Dvorsky, a Moore or a Danielson here as a result. But Benson’s too good a player to linger past this.

thanks for the insight

If the Habs would prefer a Center and Michkov is on the board, I'm making that call to move up if I'm Army. Habs can get their center at 10 where the value matches up a bit more with Danielson/Moore etc. Blues get the 2nd best player in the draft at 5 and we just have to have patience.

I agree, It worked out for Minnesota, they waited a few years. If this guy is of his caliber, well worth the pick.

NHL.com mock draft

10. St. Louis Blues

Kimelman -- Dalibor Dvorsky: Dvorsky has the size and skill to play in the middle, but also could find a home on the wing. Wherever he ends up, the Blues will be happy to have him; Dvorsky is a high-IQ player with a really good shot that he doesn't need much room to get it off.

Morreale -- Eduard Sale, LW, Brno (CZE): A talented forward with great offensive instincts who can shoot and pass with good accuracy. Sale (6-2, 174) has proven to be active in the offensive zone and presents a challenge for opposing defenders with his size and strength. He had six points (four goals, two assists) in five games for Czechia at the U-18 Worlds.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 10:36 am

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:02 am A small peak into Armstrong's mindset regarding the later 2 first round picks after the lottery:

“I thought going in that if we had won the lottery, that would’ve changed the way we approach this draft,” he said. “You would have a first-overall pick that would be the centerpiece of your retool or rebuild, but he’s still going to be 18 years old. So we might have been more likely to keep those (late) picks because you have something there that’s 18. We’re not going to build around the 10th pick in this year’s draft. He’s going to be part of whatever we build. So that’s taken one part of the equation out, and now we have to decide what we do with those later picks.

He later said the odds are pretty evenly split between making both picks, trading one for an NHL player, and trading one for 2 2nds. This came from an interview with JR this week at the Athletic.

That's...interesting and sort of the opposite of what I would have expected with regard to Bedard. I would have thought landing him would've put the Blues right back into, okay we are immediately contenders again screw a rebuild, lets trade these other picks for an NHL player. Where as the 10th pick is likely not going to come in and be a PPG player next year or even the year after so that'll likely but the team more into a 3 year plan mode and more likely to use on players that can come along at the timeframe of whoever they get at 10.

I trust myself more than Army.

I thought the same thing initially as well. I'm guessing the logic is if you had Bedard, rather than viewing him as someone that supplements the current roster, he's significant enough that you adjust the entire roster to his timeframe. Not sure why you couldn't do both, but whatever. Armstrong is usually pretty honest with his statements to the media, but given that the Bedard thing is a hypothetical that can't come to pass, I wonder if he was just bs-ing without any thought.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:15 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 10:36 am

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:02 am A small peak into Armstrong's mindset regarding the later 2 first round picks after the lottery:



He later said the odds are pretty evenly split between making both picks, trading one for an NHL player, and trading one for 2 2nds. This came from an interview with JR this week at the Athletic.

That's...interesting and sort of the opposite of what I would have expected with regard to Bedard. I would have thought landing him would've put the Blues right back into, okay we are immediately contenders again screw a rebuild, lets trade these other picks for an NHL player. Where as the 10th pick is likely not going to come in and be a PPG player next year or even the year after so that'll likely but the team more into a 3 year plan mode and more likely to use on players that can come along at the timeframe of whoever they get at 10.

I trust myself more than Army.

I thought the same thing initially as well. I'm guessing the logic is if you had Bedard, rather than viewing him as someone that supplements the current roster, he's significant enough that you adjust the entire roster to his timeframe. Not sure why you couldn't do both, but whatever. Armstrong is usually pretty honest with his statements to the media, but given that the Bedard thing is a hypothetical that can't come to pass, I wonder if he was just bs-ing without any thought.

I found the last thing he said to be his most interesting in the article. I sure would love to know what they identified as the issue and if it was on or off ice things.

We’ve done a ‘deep dive’ into what happened this year, and that’s going to stay behind closed doors, but I really don’t see that happening two years in a row.

Interesting story about Michkov and his dad’s death. Take it with a grain of salt, but I don’t doubt it.

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/rum ... 5pmXjd8A3U

BillP. wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 11:26 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

BillP. wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 10:50 am

thanks for the insight

If the Habs would prefer a Center and Michkov is on the board, I'm making that call to move up if I'm Army. Habs can get their center at 10 where the value matches up a bit more with Danielson/Moore etc. Blues get the 2nd best player in the draft at 5 and we just have to have patience.

I agree, It worked out for Minnesota, they waited a few years. If this guy is of his caliber, well worth the pick.

The difference is Minnesota took Kaprizov in the 5th round, not 5th overall. Kaprizov took 5 years to get to the NHL, but the Wild had only had 4 5th round picks ever play in the NHL at that point. Easy choice in that case, not so much at 5th overall. These GMs are so damn risk averse I wouldn't be surprised if Michkov was still on the board at 10.

They should go for it if they can swing a deal for the Russian

Matangama wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:23 pm Interesting story about Michkov and his dad’s death. Take it with a grain of salt, but I don’t doubt it.

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/rum ... 5pmXjd8A3U

I don’t doubt it one bit. Yikes. Wasn’t there some weirdness with Tarasenko when he was young as well? Like, he’d come visit but never stay, and one year they thought he would stay but he didn’t? I don’t recall exactly. But if you are pushy enough with some KHL person about pulling one of their very good players, I could easily see you being deemed a threat and them taking, um, commensurate action.

T.C. wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 6:07 am

Matangama wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:23 pm Interesting story about Michkov and his dad’s death. Take it with a grain of salt, but I don’t doubt it.

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/rum ... 5pmXjd8A3U

I don’t doubt it one bit. Yikes. Wasn’t there some weirdness with Tarasenko when he was young as well? Like, he’d come visit but never stay, and one year they thought he would stay but he didn’t? I don’t recall exactly. But if you are pushy enough with some KHL person about pulling one of their very good players, I could easily see you being deemed a threat and them taking, um, commensurate action.

I think the Russian factor was overblown in years past, but with his longer KHL contract and the heightened complications in Russia these days I think he could really slide. For once I wouldn't blame a lot of erring on the side of risk aversion with this kid. Most of the teams in the lottery can't really afford to be that patient anyway, so when you couple that with some of the other uncertainty I'd imagine lots of teams won't even have him on their board.

Newest mock is from Pronman: https://theathletic.com/4506243/2023/05 ... y-pronman/

Notes: He, like Wheeler, has Smith going 3rd overall. Slots Reinbacher 5 to Montreal. Michkov falls to 8 to Washington which would be fitting that in the year the Hawks get their new Kane, the Caps get their new Ovie.

If they go Danielson instead of Willander who was still on the board in this mock then I would be stoked with these three picks.


10. St. Louis Blues: Tom Willander, D, Rogle Jr. (SWEDEN-JR.)
I have a hard time seeing St. Louis walk away from the No. 10 pick without getting a center or defenseman, something their system desperately needs. Willander’s stock is way up right now and he could be a top-four defenseman in the league for a while.

Analysis: Willander’s skating is his main asset for the NHL; he is one of the best skaters in the draft. He has a quick, powerful skating stride and can push the pace up ice with the puck. Willander’s skating allows him to close on checks well and be a quality defender especially when combined with the fact he has some physicality in his game. I wasn’t always sold on his offensive touch. I don’t see a big-time playmaker as a pro, but Willander has good enough skill and vision to move pucks at higher levels well, especially given the space his feet can generate. He has the making of a good two-way top four defenseman.

25. St. Louis Blues (via Dallas Stars): Charlie Stramel, C, Wisconsin (BIG TEN)
Stramel had a down season, but I still believe he will go Day 1. He would be a swing pick by St. Louis with their second pick as a big center who, as a junior player, showed snarl and skill but struggled as a college freshman.

30. St. Louis Blues (via Toronto Maple Leafs): Oliver Bonk, D, London (OHL)
When I started this process I figured Bonk would end up somewhere in the top 20, but as I kept going through names he worked his way closer to 30. He’s well thought of in the league but has a “boring” skill set for a first-round pick in that he’s a big, mobile defender who can move pucks but isn’t high-end at anything. Getting him and Willander in the same draft adds massive depth to the Blues’ blue line though.