Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Oates2Hullie450 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:34 pm Hey, not to speak blasphemy of the greatest trade in team history, but is it fair to say Kyrou in place of Thompson might've been the desired outcome in the ROR deal 🤔

It evens out a LOT if ROR is gone after this year in posterity. We obviously benefitted from it tremendously, and Buffalo might after all. It could be a true perfect trade 🤷‍♂️
Kostin is the guy that surely was on the table and would've been best case scenario.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:17 pm
Oates2Hullie450 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:34 pm Hey, not to speak blasphemy of the greatest trade in team history, but is it fair to say Kyrou in place of Thompson might've been the desired outcome in the ROR deal 🤔

It evens out a LOT if ROR is gone after this year in posterity. We obviously benefitted from it tremendously, and Buffalo might after all. It could be a true perfect trade 🤷‍♂️
Kostin is the guy that surely was on the table and would've been best case scenario.
I'm sure it would have taken Kostin plus more assets to make Buffalo interested. I'm sure they valued Thompson significantly more than Kostin, even back then.

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:44 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:28 am On the balance, this seems to just be a very mediocre NHL team this season. I wonder how Armstrong handles that assuming that's the way things shake out. It's easy to figure out what to do when you're at the top or bottom, not so easy when you're on the bubble.
I agree with this assessment. Moments of brilliance, moments of utter bullshit. This is looking like a team that will be fighting for one of the final playoff spots and I'm not sure that's the goal. Will be interesting to see if Army just lets this core have one last crack at a playoff run and then lets em walk or attempts to sell at the deadline. Blues haven't been sellers in quite some team
SELL, SELL, SELL! Some before the deadline, some after the season ends, some at the draft. Rebuild or major retool time. Trying to see where this team could go in one last playoff run is a waste of a chance to finish the necessary rebuild sooner, prolonging the agony, and making the fall worse, and the comeback take longer.

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Robb_K wrote:
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:44 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:28 am On the balance, this seems to just be a very mediocre NHL team this season. I wonder how Armstrong handles that assuming that's the way things shake out. It's easy to figure out what to do when you're at the top or bottom, not so easy when you're on the bubble.
I agree with this assessment. Moments of brilliance, moments of utter bullshit. This is looking like a team that will be fighting for one of the final playoff spots and I'm not sure that's the goal. Will be interesting to see if Army just lets this core have one last crack at a playoff run and then lets em walk or attempts to sell at the deadline. Blues haven't been sellers in quite some team
SELL, SELL, SELL! Some before the deadline, some after the season ends, some at the draft. Rebuild or major retool time. Trying to see where this team could go in one last playoff run is a waste of a chance to finish the necessary rebuild sooner, prolonging the agony, and making the fall worse, and the comeback take longer.
If we did this in December of 2019, we wouldn't of won the Cup. Just sayin....................

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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BillP. wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:51 pm
Robb_K wrote:
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:44 am

I agree with this assessment. Moments of brilliance, moments of utter bullshit. This is looking like a team that will be fighting for one of the final playoff spots and I'm not sure that's the goal. Will be interesting to see if Army just lets this core have one last crack at a playoff run and then lets em walk or attempts to sell at the deadline. Blues haven't been sellers in quite some team
SELL, SELL, SELL! Some before the deadline, some after the season ends, some at the draft. Rebuild or major retool time. Trying to see where this team could go in one last playoff run is a waste of a chance to finish the necessary rebuild sooner, prolonging the agony, and making the fall worse, and the comeback take longer.
If we did this in December of 2019, we wouldn't of won the Cup. Just sayin....................
A week or two after they fired Yeo, that team was dominating teams but couldn't get a save. That was rectified in January. This team is nothing like that. They've deserved pretty much every loss. They could maaaaaybe squeak in the playoffs if everything goes right, but they'd be cannon fodder in the first round.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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BluesSK wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:09 pm If Armstrong puts up the "FOR SALE" sign, who is untouchable?

Thomas? Buchnevich maybe?

That's pretty much it right?

How far we have fallen. My goodness.
I would keep Thomas, Buchnevich, Faulk, Snuggerud, Neighbours, Tucker, and Perunovich, and not trade Barbashev or Kyrou, UNLESS we are blown away by a significant overpay (in player assets (prospects with demonstrated higher upside and/or high draft choices of seemingly more value, based on the strength of the prospect pool in those 2023 rounds. I'm not in favour of trading off ALL their decent players, just the aged ones, and those whose games are flawed, and upsides questionable. They need to get younger, faster, hungry, and dedicated players, and some two-way defencemen.

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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THW wrote:Blues Need to Rebuild Amidst Disastrous Season

The St. Louis Blues are 12-15-0 through 27 games this season. This season has been wildly disappointing, to say the least. They’ve had ample opportunity to figure this out and haven’t come close to doing so. There is plenty of blame to go around, but it’s hard not to blame the roster construction for most of their issues. Obviously, there are a lot of players on this roster that are underperforming as well.

While it’s impossible for the Blues to blow this entire thing up, they could still do a serious retool or rebuild. There are far too many long-term contracts with no-trade clauses for them to blow it up. However, this roster has major flaws and there need to be changes made as this season already feels lost.

Blues Need to Trade Rentals and More

This is likely something that won’t happen until after January, but it has to be done. The Blues have three huge rentals in Vladimir Tarasenko, Ryan O’Reilly, and Ivan Barbashev. They can’t afford to let them all walk into unrestricted free agency without getting assets in return. There are multiple examples of the Blues losing key players in free agency without getting anything in return. David Perron is the latest example, but they should have re-signed him. The difference is that the Blues are clearly not a Stanley Cup contender this season.

It starts with Tarasenko, who has been surrounded by trade rumors for over a year. He requested a trade in the offseason before the 2021-22 season, but the Blues held onto him. He was terrific last season with 82 points in 75 games. As for this season, he hasn’t been as consistent with just seven goals in 25 games. Last season, he scored 0.45 goals per game and 1.09 points per game. This season, he’s at 0.28 goals per game and 0.80 points per game. His trade value is still high, as any contender should want to bring him on as a rental. I’d be surprised if general manager Doug Armstrong doesn’t trade him this time. Potential Tarasenko suitors could include the Edmonton Oilers, Carolina Hurricanes, New York Islanders, and others.

The second-best rental is Blues captain O’Reilly. It’s been a wildly uneven start for him, and not in a good way. He has just 14 points in 27 games and nine goals overall. Prior to this season, he had 10 straight seasons of being above 0.40 in assists per game. This season, he’s at 0.19 assists per game. However, given his playoff track record and value as a two-way center, teams should still be calling. In four playoff runs with the Blues, he has 49 points in 51 games and a Conn Smythe Trophy. Teams that could look to trade for O’Reilly are the Oilers, New Jersey Devils, Florida Panthers, and others. I could see the Dallas Stars or Colorado Avalanche also making a push, but the Blues might try to avoid trading him to a division rival.

The third rental is Barbashev, who is having an interesting season. After a career year in 2021-22, his numbers are predictably down. He has 12 points in 27 games and a total of four goals. Any team that could use a hard-hitting forward should want to trade for him. Barbashev has a lot of experience with a key role in the 2019 Cup champion team. I assume that any playoff contender will want to trade for him given his experience and low salary cap hit. Outside of the rentals, the Blues should also try to shake the roster up with other trades. The problem is the contracts on their books are ridiculous in terms of years remaining and cap hit. I have to assume that teams would consider trading for Colton Parayko, Torey Krug, Nick Leddy, or Justin Faulk, but likely not until the offseason.

Blues’ Defensive Unit Needs to be Overhauled

While the Blues’ goaltenders have not made enough saves, their defensive unit has been brutal in front of them. This unit was built with major flaws, and I’m not sure how management didn’t see that last season. It’s easy to say that re-signing Leddy was good for stability, but he’s just not a good player anymore. They have over $27 million invested in this below-average defense, which is disastrous. I’m not sure where they start with the overhaul of this defense, but playing Calle Rosen more would help. He’s been the Blues’ best defenseman this season, but don’t tell that to the coaching staff or front office.

I think the move that starts the overhaul would be trading Krug in the offseason. They need to get away from his contract, which will run through the 2026-27 season. They can bring in Scott Perunovich to run the power play if he is healthy. Krug’s defense has been rough this season, which should be expected, but the Blues don’t have the personnel around him to make up for it. When he was with the Boston Bruins, they had far better defenders around him to make up for his lack of defensive prowess. It’s hard to see the Blues getting a trade to work for Krug, but they have to try.

After that, I expect that Parayko should be discussed in trade talks. However, I’m not convinced that the Blues would want to trade him. If they can’t see his major flaws as a defender now, they never will. He’s not the player that they wanted him to be, and they’re paying for it with an eight-year contract that runs through 2029-30. The same can be said for Leddy, but his deal is only for four years. He’s a below-average defender with good skating ability. If I were Armstrong, I would try very hard to move at least two of these large contracts on the blue line. Also, Marco Scandella should not play another game for this team. A change in philosophy would also help them, as they need to bring in personnel that can defend within a structure. The bottom line: the Blues need to fix this defense and it starts with shipping players out.

Armstrong Deserves Plenty of Blame

On top of the coaching staff and players, there should be criticism for Armstrong as well. He built this team and handed out bloated contracts with no-trade clauses in almost every single one. He deserves a long leash for the success that he’s had with the Blues, winning the Cup in 2019. But there have been a number of moves made by him since 2019 that make zero sense. The extensions for players like Parayko, Scandella, Brayden Schenn, Jordan Binnington, and others don’t look good. He’s been good with trades, but uneven in free agency. The trade for Pavel Buchnevich was brilliant, but the signings of Krug and Brandon Saad have had mixed results.

I don’t understand why he thought that re-signing Leddy was the proper move. It reeks of the Scandella extension, which has been a disaster from the start. He has made it nearly impossible for the Blues to do a proper rebuild around Robert Thomas and Jordan Kyrou with the disastrous contracts he’s handed out. The best thing he can do now is trade rentals and other contracts to go through a retool, where they might not be bad enough to get a legitimate draft pick inside the top seven or so. But there are multiple immovable contracts on the books right now, which makes things much more difficult. It’s a brutal situation for Armstrong to be in, but he put himself there.

I don’t think the Blues will contend for the next three seasons or so after 2022-23. They need to revamp their roster and build around Thomas and Kyrou in the best way possible. As I mentioned, it will be difficult with the number of bad contracts that they can’t move, but something has to be done. I certainly don’t think that a coaching change would fix any of this either. But the Blues must realize that they aren’t contenders right now and blowing it up as much as possible will only help them in the future.

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:29 pm
Woot. Saw Bolduc was among the last cuts for Canada. Given their Canada's ever present depth at forward in the WJCs, that's not at all concerning. I believe Snuggerud made team USA, or at least looks likely to do so? He's having a great year at Minnesota.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:42 am
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:29 pm
Woot. Saw Bolduc was among the last cuts for Canada. Given their Canada's ever present depth at forward in the WJCs, that's not at all concerning. I believe Snuggerud made team USA, or at least looks likely to do so? He's having a great year at Minnesota.
Yeah, Snuggie bear should be good to go for Team USA. He is projected to be on their top line. Will be a great chance for him to showcase and for Blues fans to see him.

What he's doing at Minnesota his freshman year has been incredible. Outpacing teammate and 3rd overall pick Logan Cooley. Think the Blues really got themselves a good one here.
Just a Russian propaganda account

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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BillP. wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:01 pmIs this Gaudette guy they signed is good? His point totals for a defenseman are pretty good. Seems promising.
Marc-Andre Gaudet (correct spelling) is from Eastern Canada, 5th round pick, playing in the QMJHL (or 'LHJMQ' if you are a French-speaking fan) for the Chicoutimi Saguenéens. None of those conditions carry much historical weight for the future of his hockey career. But maybe the Blues scouting staff sees a hint of promise in the lad worth a League minimum contract. Or maybe they have a quota for Canadian Maritimes players.

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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JMC-STL wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:24 am
BillP. wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:01 pmIs this Gaudette guy they signed is good? His point totals for a defenseman are pretty good. Seems promising.
Marc-Andre Gaudet (correct spelling) is from Eastern Canada, 5th round pick, playing in the QMJHL (or 'LHJMQ' if you are a French-speaking fan) for the Chicoutimi Saguenéens. None of those conditions carry much historical weight for the future of his hockey career. But maybe the Blues scouting staff sees a hint of promise in the lad worth a League minimum contract. Or maybe they have a quota for Canadian Maritimes players.
Thanks 😎

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Down Goes Brown of the The Athletic released their power rankings and simply chose not to rank the Blues and honestly, I get it.

Not ranked: St. Louis Blues — Let’s check in on the Blues and see if the first month’s most confusing team has decided to start making any more sense.

(Runs numbers.)

Nope!

The Blues kicked off their season by winning three straight, then losing eight, then winning seven, ending that stretch with a mediocre 10-8-0 record without ever being remotely mediocre. They’ve dialed down the streakiness just a bit since then, but still went 2-7-1 over their next 10, which is very bad. You knew things were falling apart when we started to get the classic sign of a team that’s collapsing, the hand-wringing about a loss of culture. Craig Berube’s job was in danger. Ryan O’Reilly and Vladimir Tarasenko were about to be traded. Jordan Binnington was getting shelled in Pittsburgh and New York, then wandering the parking lots outside local beer leagues looking for goalies to pretend to want to fight. (Note to editors: That last part might not be true, remember to double-check before publishing.)

So yeah, the Blues stink and their season is over. Right up until they won three straight this week.

That’s good. Wins are good. But it’s the Blues, so they can’t just play well and win a few games and leave it at that. No, we have to watch them win even though they can’t make a line change and screw up their own opening lineup. They also won a game in which they got scored on in overtime.

Sure. Why not. Really commit to the bit, you know?

All of this chaos has landed the Blues right at .500, with a 15-15-1 record. That’s not good enough for a playoff spot, but not bad enough for them to be out of the mix. They’re clearly bad, so they should sell, but also they were a lot worse a few years ago, and they won the Cup. Doug Armstrong is a good GM and will figure it out, unless he isn’t good anymore.

This is the part where I’m supposed to tie this all together and lift the veil on some sort of brilliant insight into what’s really going on with this team. So … uh, happy holidays, everyone, we’ll see you in two weeks.


https://theathletic.com/4014587/2022/12 ... nak-blues/
Just a Russian propaganda account

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:12 am Down Goes Brown of the The Athletic released their power rankings and simply chose not to rank the Blues and honestly, I get it.

Not ranked: St. Louis Blues — Let’s check in on the Blues and see if the first month’s most confusing team has decided to start making any more sense.

(Runs numbers.)

Nope!

The Blues kicked off their season by winning three straight, then losing eight, then winning seven, ending that stretch with a mediocre 10-8-0 record without ever being remotely mediocre. They’ve dialed down the streakiness just a bit since then, but still went 2-7-1 over their next 10, which is very bad. You knew things were falling apart when we started to get the classic sign of a team that’s collapsing, the hand-wringing about a loss of culture. Craig Berube’s job was in danger. Ryan O’Reilly and Vladimir Tarasenko were about to be traded. Jordan Binnington was getting shelled in Pittsburgh and New York, then wandering the parking lots outside local beer leagues looking for goalies to pretend to want to fight. (Note to editors: That last part might not be true, remember to double-check before publishing.)

So yeah, the Blues stink and their season is over. Right up until they won three straight this week.

That’s good. Wins are good. But it’s the Blues, so they can’t just play well and win a few games and leave it at that. No, we have to watch them win even though they can’t make a line change and screw up their own opening lineup. They also won a game in which they got scored on in overtime.

Sure. Why not. Really commit to the bit, you know?

All of this chaos has landed the Blues right at .500, with a 15-15-1 record. That’s not good enough for a playoff spot, but not bad enough for them to be out of the mix. They’re clearly bad, so they should sell, but also they were a lot worse a few years ago, and they won the Cup. Doug Armstrong is a good GM and will figure it out, unless he isn’t good anymore.

This is the part where I’m supposed to tie this all together and lift the veil on some sort of brilliant insight into what’s really going on with this team. So … uh, happy holidays, everyone, we’ll see you in two weeks.


https://theathletic.com/4014587/2022/12 ... nak-blues/
This team exhibits a deep commitment to keeping everyone on the outside confused. First they were losing games the deserved to lose, then winning games they desreved to win, then crumbling from within, and most recently, winning games they deserve to lose. What a ride to .500!
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:23 am

This team exhibits a deep commitment to keeping everyone on the outside confused. First they were losing games the deserved to lose, then winning games they desreved to win, then crumbling from within, and most recently, winning games they deserve to lose. What a ride to .500!

The part about having a mediocre record while never being mediocre is so accurate. They are either red hot or ice cold. There is no in between
Just a Russian propaganda account

Re: Blues 2022-2023 season thread

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:10 amROR to IR with broken foot (re-evaluate in 6 weeks)
Tarasenko to IR with hand injury (4 weeks)

Trade deadline is 8 weeks away
Fire Army, replace him with Putin, and there will be no need for trades by the time March 3rd rolls around.