Re: League Watch 2020
101The common flu will kill more people this year than the Corona virus. In bad years upwards of 100000 have passed. And as my old aunt would say" and this too shall pass ".
I actually appreciate your input even though we see this thing differently. I guess my question would be, why don't we do this for other viruses such as the flu then?UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:16 am This meme is getting passed around by some colleagues today, and it pretty much accurately sums up how I feel reading this thread (I'm an epidemiologist).
epimeme.jpg
I posted something similar to this in the other thread. Its all about how this coronavirus is novel.MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:27 amI actually appreciate your input even though we see this thing differently. I guess my question would be, why don't we do this for other viruses such as the flu then?UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:16 am This meme is getting passed around by some colleagues today, and it pretty much accurately sums up how I feel reading this thread (I'm an epidemiologist).
epimeme.jpg
Excellent summation. Thank you.UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:46 amI posted something similar to this in the other thread. Its all about how this coronavirus is novel.MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:27 amI actually appreciate your input even though we see this thing differently. I guess my question would be, why don't we do this for other viruses such as the flu then?UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:16 am This meme is getting passed around by some colleagues today, and it pretty much accurately sums up how I feel reading this thread (I'm an epidemiologist).
epimeme.jpg
Whatever strain of the flu is going around at any given time, there is a good amount of people immune to it, because people have either gotten that strain of the flu before or they got the flu vaccine. This built in immunity in the population means that it can't spread insanely rapidly--unless its one of those years like 2009 with a very virulent strain like H1N1.
So, what happens with things like the flu--yes, lots of people get it, and yes lots of people die. But because it doesn't spread and infect as many people very fast (the totals for flu cases are built up over the entirety of winter basically), our hospitals and health care system can typically handle it.
Now, contrast this to a novel disease like COVID-19. No one in the world prior to its appearance has ever been exposed to it. There is no vaccine for it. That means that essentially no one in the population has immunity to it--a very tiny percent of people may just based off of dumb luck, because your immune system can do that sometimes, but basically no one has any immunity to it until they're exposed to it. Additionally, with no vaccine, we have no way to introduce immunity to it in the population.
Since basically no one is immune, essentially anyone who is exposed to COVID-19 will be infected, and people who are infected can infect others for 5 days before they get sick. These factors mean the disease can spread MUCH faster through the population and infect way more people (see Italy). This means that the cases will pile up in a much shorter time period compared to the flu if we don't do anything.
Cases piling up is where the problems really start. Based off of what we're seeing in other countries, a higher proportion of COVID-19 cases require ventilators and ICU stays compared to other respiratory viruses like the flu. So, if the cases pile up within a short period of time, hospitals will be quickly overwhelmed. There won't be enough ventilators, hospital beds, ICU rooms, etc to handle COVID-19 patients who need them, not even including everyone else who needs ICU beds and ventilators in hospitals (cancer patients, surgeries, etc). Estimates I've seen is that the US only has around ~1 million hospital beds--we're a country of over 300 million people.
So, the reason why we don't do this for the flu? Because the flu isn't virulent enough (typically) to infect enough people within a short period of time to completely overwhelm our healthcare system and lead to compounding problems. COVID-19 is. Exactly what I described above happened/is happening in Italy. Doctors are saying ventilators are impossible to come by over there. With all of that said, I absolutely DO think people should take the flu more seriously! Wash your hands more, get vaccinated, hell, I even don't like shaking people's hands to greet them to be totally honest.
The end goal of all this has been branded as "flattening the curve"--the picture here is an example of that, showing two different epidemic curves, one thats a projection of if we don't do anything, ones a projection if we take preventative steps. A good proportion of us are going to get infected with this either way, especially if a vaccine isn't close. But if we can do things to spread those cases out over a longer period of time, we'll have a functioning healthcare system still and hopefully a lower mortality rate compared to other countries.
epicurve.jpg
Well spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:46 amI posted something similar to this in the other thread. Its all about how this coronavirus is novel.MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:27 amI actually appreciate your input even though we see this thing differently. I guess my question would be, why don't we do this for other viruses such as the flu then?UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:16 am This meme is getting passed around by some colleagues today, and it pretty much accurately sums up how I feel reading this thread (I'm an epidemiologist).
epimeme.jpg
Whatever strain of the flu is going around at any given time, there is a good amount of people immune to it, because people have either gotten that strain of the flu before or they got the flu vaccine. This built in immunity in the population means that it can't spread insanely rapidly--unless its one of those years like 2009 with a very virulent strain like H1N1.
So, what happens with things like the flu--yes, lots of people get it, and yes lots of people die. But because it doesn't spread and infect as many people very fast (the totals for flu cases are built up over the entirety of winter basically), our hospitals and health care system can typically handle it.
Now, contrast this to a novel disease like COVID-19. No one in the world prior to its appearance has ever been exposed to it. There is no vaccine for it. That means that essentially no one in the population has immunity to it--a very tiny percent of people may just based off of dumb luck, because your immune system can do that sometimes, but basically no one has any immunity to it until they're exposed to it. Additionally, with no vaccine, we have no way to introduce immunity to it in the population.
Since basically no one is immune, essentially anyone who is exposed to COVID-19 will be infected, and people who are infected can infect others for 5 days before they get sick. These factors mean the disease can spread MUCH faster through the population and infect way more people (see Italy). This means that the cases will pile up in a much shorter time period compared to the flu if we don't do anything.
Cases piling up is where the problems really start. Based off of what we're seeing in other countries, a higher proportion of COVID-19 cases require ventilators and ICU stays compared to other respiratory viruses like the flu. So, if the cases pile up within a short period of time, hospitals will be quickly overwhelmed. There won't be enough ventilators, hospital beds, ICU rooms, etc to handle COVID-19 patients who need them, not even including everyone else who needs ICU beds and ventilators in hospitals (cancer patients, surgeries, etc). Estimates I've seen is that the US only has around ~1 million hospital beds--we're a country of over 300 million people.
So, the reason why we don't do this for the flu? Because the flu isn't virulent enough (typically) to infect enough people within a short period of time to completely overwhelm our healthcare system and lead to compounding problems. COVID-19 is. Exactly what I described above happened/is happening in Italy. Doctors are saying ventilators are impossible to come by over there. With all of that said, I absolutely DO think people should take the flu more seriously! Wash your hands more, get vaccinated, hell, I even don't like shaking people's hands to greet them to be totally honest.
The end goal of all this has been branded as "flattening the curve"--the picture here is an example of that, showing two different epidemic curves, one thats a projection of if we don't do anything, ones a projection if we take preventative steps. A good proportion of us are going to get infected with this either way, especially if a vaccine isn't close. But if we can do things to spread those cases out over a longer period of time, we'll have a functioning healthcare system still and hopefully a lower mortality rate compared to other countries.
epicurve.jpg
The thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
I'm slightly confused about that myself. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this entire thing is somehow greatly effecting the supply of TP. Not sure if it's the factory or the shipping from overseas.UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 amThe thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
Thanks for your well researched and reasoned write up on the virus. I'd like to see more information from the media like that.UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 amThe thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
Thank you. Although honestly thats not really researched--thats all knowledge from assorted epidemiology/stats/public health courses from when I got my master's degree, plus experience in the field. Part of the reason you're not seeing stuff like this in the media is the media doesn't know who to interview during times like this. When there's a health problem, everyone assumes the experts is people with "MD" after there name. They are experts in a lot of cases, but quite honestly MD's don't know jack shit about epidemics. So much of a physician's training is about case management for an individual patient that they don't really learn anything about public health science. Infectious disease epidemiologists (who'll usually have MPH or PhD after their names) are the people the media should be interviewing. I have seen the top infectious epi from Harvard interviewed a few times though.BluesSK wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:15 amThanks for your well researched and reasoned write up on the virus. I'd like to see more information from the media like that.UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 amThe thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
As far as the toilet paper thing; panic, a herd mentality and Facebook are a powerful psychological weapon.
My question this whole time has been, ok, things are shut down, how is the timing determined? i.e. we shut everything down for 2 weeks (just to throw a number out there) everything is deemed ok, everything goes back to normal, and then the infection starts to spread. How did they know to do it now?UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 amThe thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
Timing is difficult to determine. In an epidemic scenario, what often happens is you sit there and realize things we could have done two weeks ago that would have helped. So, people in my profession have to kind of think ahead--what could this look like in two weeks if we don't do anything, and what would we wish we would have done then? To clarify this point a bit, they're not just thinking ahead, a lot of statistics and data analysis goes into making these types of calls. An example of this (and I don't want to get too political here, but this is a bit of an inherently political topic) is the President's order to restricting travel from Europe. Personally, I think that is useless today, because the virus is already here and its spreading person to person here. Two weeks ago though? That could have been really helpful, while at the same time probably seeming like a big overreaction.netboy65 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:12 am My question this whole time has been, ok, things are shut down, how is the timing determined? i.e. we shut everything down for 2 weeks (just to throw a number out there) everything is deemed ok, everything goes back to normal, and then the infection starts to spread. How did they know to do it now?
The NY Times published an Opinion piece yesterday on this very topic, with a video that attempts to explain the behavior ... NYT: People Around the World Are Panic-Buying … Toilet Paper?UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 am... On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
1st - Racism? What?bradleygt89 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?
As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:
IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.
Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.
Peace and be safe everyone.
Buy Procter and Gamble stockJMC-STL wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:43 amThe NY Times published an Opinion piece yesterday on this very topic, with a video that attempts to explain the behavior ... NYT: People Around the World Are Panic-Buying … Toilet Paper?UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 am... On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
Well said and my views have nothing to do with youTubers or info wars.MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:49 am1st - Racism? What?bradleygt89 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?
As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:
IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.
Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.
Peace and be safe everyone.
2nd - I have every right to question the validity of what our government tells us. I shouldn't have to give you insane amounts of examples to where they haven't been honest with the public. And why people would think this situation is any different is beyond me. And now people are trusting info that the Chinese government is putting out there.
3rd - Just because I question things and have certain theories, doesn't mean that I then automatically believe some dude making YouTube videos in his basement.
4th - I get what you are trying to say here, trust me. But, in my eyes, believing what I see on news and media outlets is just as bad. When you listen to their "experts" do you do any research on that individual to see if they really are an expert? When the media reports on what the government is reporting who is reporting on what the Chinese government is reporting, you can kind of see my predicament when I literally don't trust what all three parties say.
The death rate from that strain was far lower than the coronavirus from everything I've read. There's also the fact that relatively speaking, the virus just got here, so of course the raw numbers are low. They're going to keep rising. If it looks like we've gone overboard with preventive measures in hindsight, that means they worked. I say all this not from a political perspective, but a statistical one.NHLTIM wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:20 pmWell said and my views have nothing to do with youTubers or info wars.MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:49 am1st - Racism? What?bradleygt89 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?
As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:
IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.
Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.
Peace and be safe everyone.
2nd - I have every right to question the validity of what our government tells us. I shouldn't have to give you insane amounts of examples to where they haven't been honest with the public. And why people would think this situation is any different is beyond me. And now people are trusting info that the Chinese government is putting out there.
3rd - Just because I question things and have certain theories, doesn't mean that I then automatically believe some dude making YouTube videos in his basement.
4th - I get what you are trying to say here, trust me. But, in my eyes, believing what I see on news and media outlets is just as bad. When you listen to their "experts" do you do any research on that individual to see if they really are an expert? When the media reports on what the government is reporting who is reporting on what the Chinese government is reporting, you can kind of see my predicament when I literally don't trust what all three parties say.
Again 330 mil citizens...1250 cases or so...30 something deaths....all elderly people with other conditions.
St. Louis county just issued a state of emergency and we have just one confirmed case. Will there be more...of course.
Who remembers the media panic of of H1Z1 in 2009? Nobody because there wasn’t one. I wonder why?
I'm with ya Tim.NHLTIM wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:20 pmWell said and my views have nothing to do with youTubers or info wars.MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:49 am1st - Racism? What?bradleygt89 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?
As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:
IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.
Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.
Peace and be safe everyone.
2nd - I have every right to question the validity of what our government tells us. I shouldn't have to give you insane amounts of examples to where they haven't been honest with the public. And why people would think this situation is any different is beyond me. And now people are trusting info that the Chinese government is putting out there.
3rd - Just because I question things and have certain theories, doesn't mean that I then automatically believe some dude making YouTube videos in his basement.
4th - I get what you are trying to say here, trust me. But, in my eyes, believing what I see on news and media outlets is just as bad. When you listen to their "experts" do you do any research on that individual to see if they really are an expert? When the media reports on what the government is reporting who is reporting on what the Chinese government is reporting, you can kind of see my predicament when I literally don't trust what all three parties say.
Again 330 mil citizens...1250 cases or so...30 something deaths....all elderly people with other conditions.
St. Louis county just issued a state of emergency and we have just one confirmed case. Will there be more...of course.
Who remembers the media panic of of H1Z1 in 2009? Nobody because there wasn’t one. I wonder why?
H1N1 wasn't nearly as deadly. And also, while I'm not giving the media a gold star for their coverage of this (there has certainly been problems) I don't think I've ever seen the media "panicking" or telling people to panic (although admittedly I don't watch cable news). Its the media's job to report whats going on...are they just supposed to not tell us how bad shit's gotten in Italy and Iran? With that said--have peopled panicked in response to media coverage? Absolutely, but I don't think we can blame the media for that--thats members of the public being dumb and panicking despite every expert on this telling people to remain calm.NHLTIM wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:20 pm Well said and my views have nothing to do with youTubers or info wars.
Again 330 mil citizens...1250 cases or so...30 something deaths....all elderly people with other conditions.
St. Louis county just issued a state of emergency and we have just one confirmed case. Will there be more...of course.
Who remembers the media panic of of H1Z1 in 2009? Nobody because there wasn’t one. I wonder why?