Thanks for the good discussion friends. So glad this place exists and I don't have to go to the asylum.

Back on track. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens when Schwartz and Berglund come back.

Its going to be very interesting to see how Army manages assets this summer. Looking at capfriendly there is a lotof cash coming off the books, but lots of cash that has to be reinvested. Do we re-sign Brouwer? I think so, but at a little less than his current salary.

I think once Berglund and Schwartz are back, permitting there are no other injuries at that time, Hitch does away with the traditional forth line. I think they will move to more of a skilled forth line. Maybe something like Brodziak at center and then the wings made up of some combination of Berglund, Magnus, or Jaskin. At least this is what I would prefer. I feel a line of this type would be able to chip in offensively while still playing a strong defensive game. In reality players who deserve to play based on performance and skill level will likely sit so Ott can play ... I guess only time will tell but it is fun to speculate.

It's a shame Parayko doesn't have a full season under his belt. It's a lot to put on a kid, but he was really holding his own while Shatty was out. Shatty comes back and Parayko's minutes (and some could argue productivity) have dropped. If you move one of Petro or Shatty, it's Shatty that goes. I like that Shatty for Hall deal.

Shatty is not enough to get Hall by himself. Hall plays wing as some have mentioned.

I'm sure Army is kicking the tires on a deal for next summer, but, if I were Army I would be thinking the RHD side looks pretty good for a playoff series. The trade will be after the season.

Would be nice to overpay them a little for Eberle or RNH and then get their 2nd round pick next draft, as it is practically a first rounder.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that it may be better in the long run to trade Petro if we need to move a defenseman to add a #1A/1B center or scoring winger to our forward group. He would fetch a greater return than either Shatty or JBo, and even if we lose a little in our zone we'll be better equipped to win games 4-3 instead of trying to win 2-1, and it would be more entertaining to boot. Here are a couple of ideas that have been bouncing around my head for the last week or so:

Basic framework, may need to add to one side or the other:
To EDM: Petro + Jaskin
To STL: RNH + Nurse

Will need to wait until McDavid returns, and assumes 17 & 21 are back, but 9 is on IR. This leaves you with:
17-RNH-91
20-26-42
21-12-15
10-28-36 (93,75 extra)

19-22
Nurse-55
4, 6, 41, 48 for bottom pairing

-or-

Again, basic framework, may need to add to one side or the other:
To EDM: Petro + 2016 2nd
To STL: Rielly + JVR

Again, assumes 17 & 21 are back, but 9 is on IR. This leaves you with:
17-26-91
JVR-42-20
21-12-15
10-28-36 (93,75 extra)

19-22
Rielly-55
4, 6, 41, 48 for bottom pairing

I like the 2nd deal less because it means that you have Lehtera back as your #2C if Backes walks, but either should be doable. Am I crazy for wanting to trade Petro?

I feel like this is bait, ok I'll bite. The league is morphing into an offensive league, that being said we don't have the horse's to keep up, 91 can't be our only offensive threat. We could really benefit from petros reputation and play. Edmonton is in my opinion a perfect trade partner, they need D we need a center, they have in my opinion one of the most talented young center's in the NHL in Draisaitl, Armstrong should be begging for this kid. Instead we'll wait and try and resurrect Gomez as an option, insanity. I've watched many Oiler games this year, they are one or two players from oh Fuck we have to play them? It's doable, and petro is the key. Now it's time for everyone to beat the "oh my god Petro eats so many minutes" drum, Fuck that!!

Put me down for the first one, Mook.

I'm down to trade petro, BUT what may bite us in the ass is shatty's injury-proneness.

If he can knock that shit off, we're golden

I think we would DEEPLY regret trading Pietrangelo unless we got a veritable king's ransom for him. He's only 25, plays big minutes in all scenarios, usually shuts down the other team's top players, doesn't take a lot of penalties, and pots an average of 45+ points and 9+ goals a season to boot. Very few guys like that out there.

Shattenkirk is good defensively at even strength and our powerplay depends on him, and he can rack up points. Colton Parayko is still a young, protected defenseman who is probably still a couple of years away from proving whether he's a true #1 all-around guy.

Tarasenko should be good for 35+ goals, Schwartz, Backes and Steen should all be good for 25-30 goals (prorated for injuries, of course), Stastny, Lehtera and Browuer for 15-20 each, and who knows yet where Paajarvi, Fabbri and Jaskin might end up, leaving guys like Berglund, Brodziak, Ott, Reaves, Upshall, Gomez etc as 4th liners and fill ins. But a lot of those totals come from defensemen who can move them the puck. If you trade Pietrangelo for another scorer, who picks up Petro's 45 points from the back end?

Sure, it'd be nice to pick up an established, two way scoring threat like Marian Hossa when he was dealt to Pittsburgh, but did you see what went back to Atlanta the other way? No-where near a Pietrangelo type of player. It's about finding the right situation.

Now if you're talking a deal with Phoenix (excuse me, I mean ARIZONA) that would send Pietrangelo for Ekman-Larsson, with something to sweeten the deal maybe, simply to swap a Righty for a Lefty of similar calibers, that would make more sense...

Can you make it Rielly and RNH? I'd rather have that! I would love to have Rielly...

I hate how he just misses the net, but I would prefer to keep him. Now if someone were to say, 100%, Parayko becomes the next Petro, then ship Petro out. But hell, you could just make a guess now on who to move, and you would either be a hero or a zero on a whim.....

TOR would be crazy to trade Rielly. They need to build around him.

NHLTIM wrote:Can you make it Rielly and RNH? I'd rather have that! I would love to have Rielly...

So if we shuffle the deck a little bit, here is what everyone is giving up.

STL - Petro, Jaskin, 2016 2nd
EDM - RNH, Nurse
TOR - Rielly, JVR

If we got RNH and Rielly the other two teams would probably get:

TOR - Nurse, STL 2016 2nd
EDM - Petro, Jaskin

Maybe if STL or EDM kicked in a pick for TOR to seal the deal this would work, but I don't see enough value in there for TOR yet. This actually would be a situation where I'd be fine giving up our first next year, so maybe something along the lines of our 1st and EDM 3rd going to TOR gets it done. Fun to speculate, but 2-team deals like this rarely go down anymore. Hard to see a 3-team deal get finished.

RAFritchey wrote: Backes shouldl be good for 25-30 goals (prorated for injuries, of course)

Has he even come close to 20 since moving to center? I fear you are over rating backes' scoring touch (as a center)

Edit: just looked it up, and the crow tastes delicious!

Idk why i dont ever remember backes scoring that much....

If we can get an impact player, I'm in favor of trading Petro. His defensive play had improved this season, but he is of very little help in front of his own goal.
In the offensive zone, I much prefer having the pick on the stick of Shatty or Parayko.
In my opinion, which admittedly isn't worth much, Petro has peaked. He is, what he is. Not the elite player everyone has been waiting for.

From his first full season (2010-2011) through today, do you know where Petro ranks overall among ALL defensemen?

Points: #5
Blocked shots: #6
Takeaways: #6
Shots: #7
Shot Attempts: #10
+/- (IMHO kind of dubious for comparisons, but anyway): #13

He plays top-pairing minutes against the other team's top scoring line, as well as PP and PK, and has been one of the top 5 best scoring defensemen in the league. You're just not going to GET much better than him, outside of a handful of guys.

If that's not "elite" I don't know what is. If that's "peaked" I'll take it! But he's only 25, and I think he still has more improvement ahead of him. And he's locked in at a VERY reasonable $6.5-7.5 mil a year for 4 years beyond this one. (look at players like Shea Webber making $14 mil this year, and $12 mil/year for the next two, P.K. Subban slated to make $11 mil/year or Brent Seabrook and Ryan Suter both going to be making $9 mil/year)

Neither Parayko nor Shattenkirk are ready to step in to replace that.

From my perspective, this suggestion has nothing to do with Petro being inadequate or believing that he has peaked. I believe we need help up front. Tarasenko needs his "Robin" if he is going to fulfill his potential as "Batman". Maybe that means a center upgrade for his line or maybe it means another quality Top 6 winger to make the 2nd line more dangerous and take some pressure off of him. Either way, I don't believe we have enough quality at the top to get it done.

If we can downgrade from Petro to someone like Nurse or Rielly, who are young but already very good in their own right and project to be elite or 2nd tier defensemen, why not use our most valuable commodity in Petro to get "Robin"? This is all about trading from a position of strength to fill a need in a position of relative weakness.

MissouriMook wrote:From my perspective, this suggestion has nothing to do with Petro being inadequate or believing that he has peaked. I believe we need help up front. Tarasenko needs his "Robin" if he is going to fulfill his potential as "Batman". Maybe that means a center upgrade for his line or maybe it means another quality Top 6 winger to make the 2nd line more dangerous and take some pressure off of him. Either way, I don't believe we have enough quality at the top to get it done.

If we can downgrade from Petro to someone like Nurse or Rielly, who are young but already very good in their own right and project to be elite or 2nd tier defensemen, why not use our most valuable commodity in Petro to get "Robin"? This is all about trading from a position of strength to fill a need in a position of relative weakness.

I agree. It's not like the Blues are going to win the cup this year anyway. Remake this team and work towards next year. They aren't showing me anything at this point.

Isn't Schwartz more like Nightwing?

CaptSMRT wrote:Isn't Schwartz more like Nightwing?

Batmite.

Nope.

You all have it wrong. We need to trade the lazy ass Russian for an elite centerman to set up Steen.

Or maybe we should trade Allen for a real good minute eating, elite D man.

Because it makes sense to trade your best positional player to fill a so called hole in another position...

(PS: I have nothing against making a trade that improves the team. But could you imagine the Penguins trading Crosby or Malkin to improve their D? Or the 'hawks trading Seabrook or Keith to improve their goaltending? Cup winning teams don't trade their #1 player in a position to fill a 'hole'. They trade picks, prospects, or 2nd tier players.

You want a better center or forward? Then trade Gunner/JayBo/Bort, Rattie/Jaskin/Fabbri, and a pick.

PS: We have three very good centers already, and two are in the top 5 IIRC for F/O winning %. IMHO, we need more shooters, not more playmakers. Steen, Fabbri, and Tarasenko are really our only true shooters, although Jaskin has teased us.

We've got Batman/Tarsenko's "Robin." His secret identity is Jaden Schwartz, and in his first two full seasons he's averaged almost 27 goals and 60 points (with great all-around play), and still has plenty of upside to fulfill once he comes back from injury.

I'm not nearly ready to give up on this season. Quite the opposite. I think they're still shaking out a new system, and there are going to be rough patches. The playoffs are in the Spring, and even now we're still one of the top 4 teams in the West. I'm tired of the years where the Blues were #1 or #2 in the league pretty much all season, then got knocked out in the 1st round.

We don't need to deal one of the top 5 all-around defensemen in the league for stop-gap scoring because of an injury and a couple of proven scorers in a slump.

I started a Petro vs Shatty thread over at the asylum and I've pretty well talked myself into trading Petro at this point. It's up to you guys to talk me out of it.

My rationale is that Shatty/Parayko(eventually) will do a better job of filling in as #1D than Backes/Stastny do at filling in as a #1C. In this scenario Petro is traded for a real upgrade at center, and Shatty steps in as our #1D.

I should also add that I don't see this season's Blues as being a contender at all, not even close. Coaching is a huge issue and the overall makeup of the team is just off right now. There are however, still a lot of reasons to like this team going forward. Still, they need lots of help up front if they are going to get back to where they are considered a real threat.

Missing the playoffs might not even be the worst thing for this team longterm. They could really use another top forward and could find one picking in the top half of the draft easily. Right now our only two forward prospects to get excited about are Fabbri and Barbashev. We need more firepower.

RAFritchey wrote:From his first full season (2010-2011) through today, do you know where Petro ranks overall among ALL defensemen?

Points: #5
Blocked shots: #6
Takeaways: #6
Shots: #7
Shot Attempts: #10
+/- (IMHO kind of dubious for comparisons, but anyway): #13

He plays top-pairing minutes against the other team's top scoring line, as well as PP and PK, and has been one of the top 5 best scoring defensemen in the league. You're just not going to GET much better than him, outside of a handful of guys.

If that's not "elite" I don't know what is. If that's "peaked" I'll take it! But he's only 25, and I think he still has more improvement ahead of him. And he's locked in at a VERY reasonable $6.5-7.5 mil a year for 4 years beyond this one. (look at players like Shea Webber making $14 mil this year, and $12 mil/year for the next two, P.K. Subban slated to make $11 mil/year or Brent Seabrook and Ryan Suter both going to be making $9 mil/year)

Neither Parayko nor Shattenkirk are ready to step in to replace that.

I think this is right on. Petro isn't flashy but his combination of game and contract won't come around for a long time. I don't want to trade Shatty either, but if it's one or the other I'm hanging on to Petro. At this point I'm more curious about what happens with Backes though as we haven't heard much about his negotiations.