Shatty for Malkin tomorrow?

Holy Shit Malkin makes a lot of money!!!

http://capfriendly.com/?p=team-cap&team ... 20Penguins

well after watching the Blues and Pens I think we need another real good forward. Too often relying on 91. Didn't work when Hull was here on some amazing teams, wont work again with this team.

Think about it Leeerrryyyyy!!!!!

MissouriMook wrote:I mentioned this over on HF last night, but what about finding a trade partner for Shatty who has the left-handed equivalent of Shatty? It wouldn't really be just shuffling deck chairs, as handedness matters to an awful lot of people in the NHL. OEL is an example, though I doubt that is something the Coyotes would consider. Is there a left-handed equivalent of Shatty out there in the NHL playing for a team that has the opposite problem as we do, too many quality LHD to play in the Top 4?

He's a couple years away but if you're looking for a lefty version of Shatty, the Blues may already have that player in Vince Dunn.

STL fan in IA wrote:

MissouriMook wrote:I mentioned this over on HF last night, but what about finding a trade partner for Shatty who has the left-handed equivalent of Shatty? It wouldn't really be just shuffling deck chairs, as handedness matters to an awful lot of people in the NHL. OEL is an example, though I doubt that is something the Coyotes would consider. Is there a left-handed equivalent of Shatty out there in the NHL playing for a team that has the opposite problem as we do, too many quality LHD to play in the Top 4?

He's a couple years away but if you're looking for a lefty version of Shatty, the Blues may already have that player in Vince Dunn.

That's my hope as well. Dunn was a very nice pick. Glad to have him in the pipeline.

I wonder what everyone will say when Parayko slips on that proverbial banana peel that a lot of rookie d-men inevitably do. Some are suggesting him as a replacement for Pietrangelo after 21 games?

SickMittsRomKnee wrote:I wonder what everyone will say when Parayko slips on that proverbial banana peel that a lot of rookie d-men inevitably do. Some are suggesting him as a replacement for Pietrangelo after 21 games?

Not only this, but I don't understand why the desire to trade anyone on our D (outside of JayBo or Gunner). Especially when we are consistently battling injuries (not just the Blues, but all teams). No way do I trade a guy like Petro or Shatty, because especially as injury prone as Shatty has been lately, if he's your #1, your a big hit or groin pull away from having either Bortz or Parayko as your #1 RHD.

I'm also not understanding why we won't have enough $ to sign Shatty to a LT deal? Just this summer we'll shed salary of at least 12.285 in Brouwer, Ott, Gunner, Brodziak, Upshall, MPS, and Gomez. That 12.285 should be enough to re-sign Backes ($1.5M); Schwartz ($4M); Jaskin ($1.5M); Rattie ($1M) for a total of $8M in raises for those 4, which leaves $4M for any other signings. In 16-17 when Shatty is up, Berglunds will be coming off the books, so that is 3.5 right there.

Again, I'm not understanding why we need this top flight center more than a top D? I'm comfortable with Stastny, Lehtera, Backes, Gomez, and Brodziak for now. Come next season, if we do let Brodz and Gomez go, we'll still have Bergs on the books, so maybe trade him.

I'd like to see these lines in 16-17:

Steen/Stastny/Tarasenko
Schwartz/Backes/Fabbri
Barbashev/Lehtera/Jaskin/Rattie (one of Barbs or Rattie better be ready for next season. And FWIW, could Barbs be that future #1 Center? He's got 11 points in 14 games w/ the Wolves, but don't know if he's playing C there or LW?)
UFA/UFA/Reaves/Welch/AHL Call Up

Bo/Petro
Lindbohm/Shatty
Edmundson/Parayko/Borts/AHL Call Up

Allen/Elliott

bradleygt89 wrote:

SickMittsRomKnee wrote:I wonder what everyone will say when Parayko slips on that proverbial banana peel that a lot of rookie d-men inevitably do. Some are suggesting him as a replacement for Pietrangelo after 21 games?

Not only this, but I don't understand why the desire to trade anyone on our D (outside of JayBo or Gunner). Especially when we are consistently battling injuries (not just the Blues, but all teams). No way do I trade a guy like Petro or Shatty, because especially as injury prone as Shatty has been lately, if he's your #1, your a big hit or groin pull away from having either Bortz or Parayko as your #1 RHD.

I'm also not understanding why we won't have enough $ to sign Shatty to a LT deal? Just this summer we'll shed salary of at least 12.285 in Brouwer, Ott, Gunner, Brodziak, Upshall, MPS, and Gomez. That 12.285 should be enough to re-sign Backes ($1.5M); Schwartz ($4M); Jaskin ($1.5M); Rattie ($1M) for a total of $8M in raises for those 4, which leaves $4M for any other signings. In 16-17 when Shatty is up, Berglunds will be coming off the books, so that is 3.5 right there.

Again, I'm not understanding why we need this top flight center more than a top D? I'm comfortable with Stastny, Lehtera, Backes, Gomez, and Brodziak for now. Come next season, if we do let Brodz and Gomez go, we'll still have Bergs on the books, so maybe trade him.

I'd like to see these lines in 16-17:

Steen/Stastny/Tarasenko
Schwartz/Backes/Fabbri
Barbashev/Lehtera/Jaskin/Rattie (one of Barbs or Rattie better be ready for next season. And FWIW, could Barbs be that future #1 Center? He's got 11 points in 14 games w/ the Wolves, but don't know if he's playing C there or LW?)
UFA/UFA/Reaves/Welch/AHL Call Up

Bo/Petro
Lindbohm/Shatty
Edmundson/Parayko/Borts/AHL Call Up

Allen/Elliott

Backes will cost way more than 1.5M, and Schwartz will cost more than 4M I bet.

But on your point, to me its not about not having enough space to sign Shattenkirk. Its more about spending 7M+ to sign a guy who on the Blues is a 2nd pairing defenseman, when (IMO) we still have a glaring need in a true top line center that I would rather us spend that money on. That leads me to want to trade him if that top center becomes available, since he's the best chip we have and it would suck terribly if he walks away for nothing.

Count me in the group that thinks Shatty, Pietrangelo, and Parayko sound like a really great core.

SickMittsRomKnee wrote:I wonder what everyone will say when Parayko slips on that proverbial banana peel that a lot of rookie d-men inevitably do. Some are suggesting him as a replacement for Pietrangelo after 21 games?

Parayko is not the replacement for Petro. Shatty is. And you have to do some math here but follow along.

Would you rather have Petro Shatty Parayko or

Shatty Parayko Bortuzzo and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

The PD article today points out how little scoring we have, always getting scored on first, always playing catch up. Tank is the only guy scoring.

Backes is an aging center. I like this deal.

Just FYI; my numbers for Backes ($1.5M) & Schwartz ($4M) are raises due. I don't think Backes will bring in more than $6M and Schwartz around $6.5 at the most, depending on this season.

Aso to RNH, PASS! Guy has done nothing on an offensively gifted team, never even breaking 60 points. How is he an upgrade over Stastny or Backes?

Personally, I am a 'build from the Goalie and D out' type of armchair manager. Sure, more goals and skill are fun, but if your giving up more than your scoring, you're still losing. And right now, even with lower scoring numbers, we are winning.

Unless a championship team is up against the cap, when was the last time you saw them trade their #1 anything? You don't trade a minute munching, great transitional, fair priced, skilled dman like Petro and HOPE that Shatty can stay healthy. Only change on D I make is to replace Gunner...and even that I'm starting to change on because he's having a descent year so far.

TLDR: Don't trade from strength to then create a weakness. Shatty goes down, you comfortable having CP or Bortz running #1 RHD for 10-40 games? I'm not, not yet.

First, I don't think Shattenkirk gets anywhere NEAR a Ryan Suter type deal (especially with the massive bonuses he got/is getting). Suter is FAR more of an all-around defenseman, and that was a crazy offer he got even taking that into consideration. Shatty will get a significant raise, but I don't think it'll be a 'market leading' contract by any stretch.

Because of the above, I don't think Shattenkirk OR Pietrangelo alone would actually land you a true, 'game breaking' center. Those kinds of guys are RARELY available except for a MASSIVE over-payment (or unless there are SERIOUS question marks about them, a la Tyler Seguin). We'd probably have to throw in at least two of our second tier scorers and/or 'blue-chip' prospects, too, and would that really help? There's a reason Crosby, Malkin, Getzlaf, Toews, Tavares, Stamkos, Kopitar, Backstrom, Bergeron, Krejci, Giroux, Datsyuk, etc, etc. are all still on the same teams that drafted them.

I also think we're over-projecting Colton Parayko's development already. He's VERY good, but playing a very protected role still, not against other teams' top players, minuscule time on the PK, and still only 3rd on the PP amongst our defensemen. He's only played 38 games total as a pro (17 in the AHL), and has never played more than 53 games in a season, even going back to his junior days. He has a GREAT ceiling, but I don't think he'll be ready to be a top pairing guy in the next season or even two, at least not on a team that has Stanley Cup aspirations.

RAFritchey with the winning post...what he said

bradleygt89 wrote:Just FYI; my numbers for Backes ($1.5M) & Schwartz ($4M) are raises due. I don't think Backes will bring in more than $6M and Schwartz around $6.5 at the most, depending on this season.

Aso to RNH, PASS! Guy has done nothing on an offensively gifted team, never even breaking 60 points. How is he an upgrade over Stastny or Backes?

Personally, I am a 'build from the Goalie and D out' type of armchair manager.

RNH is on a point per game clip for his entire career. We dont have a center that good. he's 22! and signed to a better contract than Stas.

Allen looks like he's the goalie we will be building out from.

RAFritchey wrote: There's a reason Crosby, Malkin, Getzlaf, Toews, Tavares, Stamkos, Kopitar, Backstrom, Bergeron, Krejci, Giroux, Datsyuk, etc, etc. are all still on the same teams that drafted them.

Wayne Gretzky called, said to say hi.

39hurricane wrote:

RAFritchey wrote: There's a reason Crosby, Malkin, Getzlaf, Toews, Tavares, Stamkos, Kopitar, Backstrom, Bergeron, Krejci, Giroux, Datsyuk, etc, etc. are all still on the same teams that drafted them.

Wayne Gretzky called, said to say hi.

Anyone post salary cap era? Thornton is the only one I can think of. And that's not really turned out that well for the Sharks...

39hurricane wrote:

bradleygt89 wrote:Just FYI; my numbers for Backes ($1.5M) & Schwartz ($4M) are raises due. I don't think Backes will bring in more than $6M and Schwartz around $6.5 at the most, depending on this season.

Aso to RNH, PASS! Guy has done nothing on an offensively gifted team, never even breaking 60 points. How is he an upgrade over Stastny or Backes?

Personally, I am a 'build from the Goalie and D out' type of armchair manager.

RNH is on a point per game clip for his entire career. We dont have a center that good. he's 22! and signed to a better contract than Stas.

Allen looks like he's the goalie we will be building out from.

I think Stastny is better than RNH overall. Better defensively and PP, and almost as good 5/5.

RNH: Career PPG .73 http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... nry01.html

Stastny: Career PPG .82 (.85 w/ CO; .65 w STL) http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... tpa01.html

Also look at their goals created stats, nearly identical.

sorry, not saying there aren't better out there than Stastny, but I really don't want a player who has been groomed in the loser culture of Edmonton.

Nuge is not better than Stastny. In fact Nugent-Hopkins is likely to top out as a low end #1 center which is exactly what Stastny is right now. Now, having another Stastny on the team is just fine with me, but let's not pretend Nuge is some stud waiting to break out. He's a fine center, but if you want a Toews/Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos level guy he's not it. It's very likely that that type of player is unavailable to us for a while unless we somehow draft them. You can win a cup without that kind of guy. The Rangers are a real cup contender and Stepan/Brassard are nowhere near elite centers. Montreal has no stud #1C but they have a real shot.

If your team doesn't have a stud #1C you better at least have some very good center depth, and your defense and goaltending need to be elite. The Blues are closer to being elite in goal and on D than they are finding an elusive stud centerman (our centers as is are middle of the pack overall). Might as well build around your strengths.

IMO another scoring threat up front is needed period. Whether that guy is a center or not, doesn't really matter. We also need to either re-sign or replace Backes somehow going forward.

Pitt has had Crosby, and Malkin for nine years and have won one cup, so there has to be more to winning than having one of those players.

CaptSMRT wrote:Pitt has had Crosby, and Malkin for nine years and have won one cup, so there has to be more to winning than having one of those players.

....and now they have Perron and Cole...never mind

Turk Sanderson wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:Pitt has had Crosby, and Malkin for nine years and have won one cup, so there has to be more to winning than having one of those players.

....and now they have Perron and Cole...never mind

Perron has been held back by top flight centers for too long...he needs the spot light to shine his brightest.

Unlike a Blues Fan, Perron's light bulb went out a long time ago.

Turk Sanderson wrote:Unlike a Blues Fan, Perron's light bulb went out a long time ago.

bulb_2.jpg

Perron shall rise again.

bradleygt89 wrote:

39hurricane wrote:

bradleygt89 wrote:Just FYI; my numbers for Backes ($1.5M) & Schwartz ($4M) are raises due. I don't think Backes will bring in more than $6M and Schwartz around $6.5 at the most, depending on this season.

Aso to RNH, PASS! Guy has done nothing on an offensively gifted team, never even breaking 60 points. How is he an upgrade over Stastny or Backes?

Personally, I am a 'build from the Goalie and D out' type of armchair manager.

RNH is on a point per game clip for his entire career. We dont have a center that good. he's 22! and signed to a better contract than Stas.

Allen looks like he's the goalie we will be building out from.

I think Stastny is better than RNH overall. Better defensively and PP, and almost as good 5/5.

RNH: Career PPG .73 http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... nry01.html

Stastny: Career PPG .82 (.85 w/ CO; .65 w STL) http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... tpa01.html

Also look at their goals created stats, nearly identical.

sorry, not saying there aren't better out there than Stastny, but I really don't want a player who has been groomed in the loser culture of Edmonton.

RNH is doing this while only being 22 and playing for EDM during some really bad years. The knock against him has been his size and strength. Once he builds some strength say in the next year or two he will have a breakout. I would take him over Stastny, but I wouldn't trade Shatty or Petro for him. jmo

Doug Glatt wrote: RNH is doing this while only being 22 and playing for EDM during some really bad years. The knock against him has been his size and strength. Once he builds some strength say in the next year or two he will have a breakout. I would take him over Stastny, but I wouldn't trade Shatty or Petro for him. jmo

Agreed, but I'd love to convince them they need Backes and a lesser d-man for him. Wouldn't happen but that's what I'd go for. If they're open to talking about Draisaitl though...

UMSLBlues12 wrote:

Doug Glatt wrote: RNH is doing this while only being 22 and playing for EDM during some really bad years. The knock against him has been his size and strength. Once he builds some strength say in the next year or two he will have a breakout. I would take him over Stastny, but I wouldn't trade Shatty or Petro for him. jmo

Agreed, but I'd love to convince them they need Backes and a lesser d-man for him. Wouldn't happen but that's what I'd go for. If they're open to talking about Draisaitl though...

It would have to be Backes +, but I certainly think EDM would be interested in Backes. He fits a lot of their needs. Also I think many blues fans are writing off Backes waaaaay too early. He is a notorious slow starter. I bet when it is all said and done this season Backes will have his numbers. The guy gets stronger as the season goes on at least until the playoffs start....