Yep, forgot about MAF, but wonder if he was truly shopped by the Pens. And IIRC, there was a lot of negative thoughts that summer about DA maybe trying to get him: washed up, old, not good anymore, passed up by Murray, etc. Hindsight is perfect here, and yeah, MAF would have been beautiful IMHO as a Blues goalie. Plus he brings that ONE THING I keep begging DA to find: A starting player who has won a fucking Stanley Cup (and was integral to his team winning it).

MattyIce wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:00 pm
Really nice post Bradley. A lot of good points in there.
Elliott bothers me a lot because he took you to the WCF. He was also a leader in the locker room. That same offseason you lost Backes & Brouwer, then Reaves and Shatty after that. That's a lot of leadership in those 5 guys that almost got you to the promised land. Plus, leadership is the thing we all complain about with this team.
Letting Hutton go seemed crazy at the time and still seems crazy. Jake had 2 rough years in a row. Hutton was one of the top goalies in the league statistically. When you let a guy like that walk in favor of a guy that has been struggling at times, you better be ready for some criticism if the guy you chose get gets outperformed.

In hindsight this might have been Army's biggest sin. In a vacuum, each of the individual moves that resulted in locker room leaders leaving town made sense to me. Backes, Brouwer, Elliott, Shattenkirk and certainly a few players in smaller roles like Brodziak seemingly had to go for one reason or another. The problem has been that no one has done an adequate job of filling those leadership roles.

Those guys weren't perfect, I know Backes drove us nuts with late, futile revenge penalties from time to time, but hell, wouldn't we love to see a few of those these days? We've said it before many times lately, but the core seems to be rotten. Time to pitch the apple and head back to the market.

bradleygt89 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:10 pm Yep, forgot about MAF, but wonder if he was truly shopped by the Pens. And IIRC, there was a lot of negative thoughts that summer about DA maybe trying to get him: washed up, old, not good anymore, passed up by Murray, etc. Hindsight is perfect here, and yeah, MAF would have been beautiful IMHO as a Blues goalie. Plus he brings that ONE THING I keep begging DA to find: A starting player who has won a fucking Stanley Cup (and was integral to his team winning it).

There is no arguing that MAF had some warts at the time. But, he was never even an option at the time because the Blues were never going to pay two goalies a combined 10 million dollars. More specifically, they were never going to pay Jake Allen over 4 million to be a backup. And that's been the problem. They could never truly address their most consistent and glaring issue through all the coaching changes and roster turnover because DA married this team to Allen prematurely with that contract.

They've got to figure it out this offseason though. That is something we all can agree on.

No doubt in my mind the Blues could of gotten MAF if they wanted to. First off, you don't sign Allen to an early extension. He had 1 more year on his deal. So he was definitely a trade-able commodity at the time. Same with Elliot.....................if you go all in to knock the door down and go to the Cup, you stay heavy and get MAF, or at the very least keep Elliot, the goalie that got you to the Final 4. The 2016 off season was bad and what made me rant and rant and rant about DA. That next year, the door was open for a return trip to the Final 4 and the Blues just ignore it. Just horrible. Even Oshie said, if we take a couple more kicks at it, I think we get there. Well, the Blues only took 1 more kick at it...............oh well, what's done is done.

Like I posted earlier, we're going to eat a lot of salary with this motherfucker, and maybe get a 30 pack.

BlueinNy wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:51 pm Like I posted earlier, we're going to eat a lot of salary with this motherfucker, and maybe get a 30 pack.

It better not be Schlitz

I wonder if we are a playoff team with a competent starter.

rudy4u51 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm I wonder if we are a playoff team with a competent starter.

I think we would be in a much better position if we had a solid starter.....like Hutton, for example. Allen and the shit goals he gives up every single game just sucks the life out of the team. The team definitely has sucked, and while you can’t blame Shakey for everything, he is easily the biggest problem

Matangama wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:23 pm

rudy4u51 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm I wonder if we are a playoff team with a competent starter.

I think we would be in a much better position if we had a solid starter.....like Hutton, for example. Allen and the shit goals he gives up every single game just sucks the life out of the team. The team definitely has sucked, and while you can’t blame Shakey for everything, he is easily the biggest problem

Don't confuse good backup with 'solid starter'. What's he done lately for the Sabres? Lost 8 of last 10 games he started.

I do agree that the Blues should rid of just about everything, including many in the front office and on the ice. And yes, that includes Allen. He will be another Blues goalie who goes somewhere else and if properly used, will succeed.

MAF could have blown up for Vegas like he did for a couple of years at Pittsburgh. He wasn't a sure thing by any means.

Allen's contract was just too long for his track record.

bradleygt89 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:30 pm

Matangama wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:23 pm

rudy4u51 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm I wonder if we are a playoff team with a competent starter.

I think we would be in a much better position if we had a solid starter.....like Hutton, for example. Allen and the shit goals he gives up every single game just sucks the life out of the team. The team definitely has sucked, and while you can’t blame Shakey for everything, he is easily the biggest problem

Don't confuse good backup with 'solid starter'. What's he done lately for the Sabres? Lost 8 of last 10 games he started.

I do agree that the Blues should rid of just about everything, including many in the front office and on the ice. And yes, that includes Allen. He will be another Blues goalie who goes somewhere else and if properly used, will succeed.

Fair comment, brad......but I’d still take Hutton back in a blink.

bradleygt89 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:30 pm

Matangama wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:23 pm

rudy4u51 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm I wonder if we are a playoff team with a competent starter.

I think we would be in a much better position if we had a solid starter.....like Hutton, for example. Allen and the shit goals he gives up every single game just sucks the life out of the team. The team definitely has sucked, and while you can’t blame Shakey for everything, he is easily the biggest problem

Don't confuse good backup with 'solid starter'. What's he done lately for the Sabres? Lost 8 of last 10 games he started.

A bit misleading though. His save % over those 10 games is .913 and he's given up 2 or fewer goals in 5 of the 10. His play has remained solid for them.

BluesSK wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:38 pm MAF could have blown up for Vegas like he did for a couple of years at Pittsburgh. He wasn't a sure thing by any means.

Allen's contract was just too long for his track record.

I don't know that MAF blew up a "couple years" at Pittsburgh. He really only had one bad regular season. If he blew up any of the other years, his blow up years were on par with Allen's best years. As stated, he definitely had his warts, but I think we are exaggerating them a bit.

BluesSK wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:38 pm MAF could have blown up for Vegas like he did for a couple of years at Pittsburgh. He wasn't a sure thing by any means.

Allen's contract was just too long for his track record.

What if… Just what if, maybe it was within a GM’s expertise to take a look at a guy like MAF and make a judgment on whether he is likely to bounce back. Sure, he could have blown up in Vegas, But is it possible that Vegas knew what they were doing? Maybe they realized they had something to work with?

rudy4u51 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm I wonder if we are a playoff team with a competent starter.

So hard to say. As of today, they'd probably be in WC contention for sure.

BillP wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:48 pm

rudy4u51 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm I wonder if we are a playoff team with a competent starter.

So hard to say. As of today, they'd probably be in WC contention for sure.

The Blues have only scored 114 goals this season. Only LA (99), Yotes (108), and Ducks, (104) have scored less in the WC.

Blues are where they are because they suck as a team. Allen has sucked the previous couple of games, and several other times this season. But playoff teams overcome their goalies issues with scoring...and playoff teams overcome low scoring with good goaltending. We have neither. Everyone says that Jakes mistakes cost the team, but what about the consistent turnovers this team creates in its own zone. The confidence of Jake and the skaters sucks this season. Fragile.

In the NHL standings as of this post, only ONE team in the entire NHL is positioned in the playoffs with a negative goal differential: Montreal at -1, and only one is positioned out of the playoffs with a positive goal differential, one point behind the Canadians, the NY Islanders at + 13.

https://www.nhl.com/standings/2018/wildcard

This isn't to 'defend' Jake, it's just to point out that this team has multiple issues. Sure, would love for Jake to be replaced. But I'm to the point I want DA moved before anyone else. He makes some great trades, but the vision of the team's identity and long-term build seems to fluctuate too much from season to season as the 'new Cup winner has shown us that this style is the way to go'.

Well let's say the games he lost for us had a few less softies. I'm in the camp that the whole team would play differently. How about just making 1 soft goal a game go away for the love of everything holy.

If Jake Allen jumped into a swimming pool...the whole Earth would slip by him on the post side and he would fall endlessly through space for eternity.

CaptSMRT wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:02 pm If Jake Allen jumped into a swimming pool...the whole Earth would slip by him on the post side and he would fall endlessly through space for eternity.

He’d come out dry... he couldn’t even catch a drop of water in a pool.

Turk Sanderson wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:30 pm

CaptSMRT wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:02 pm If Jake Allen jumped into a swimming pool...the whole Earth would slip by him on the post side and he would fall endlessly through space for eternity.

He’d come out dry... he couldn’t even catch a drop of water in a pool.

If he walked in front of a bus it would go through his five hole.

He couldn’t catch an STD if he fucked Madonna.

bradleygt89 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:51 pm

BillP wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:48 pm

rudy4u51 wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm I wonder if we are a playoff team with a competent starter.

So hard to say. As of today, they'd probably be in WC contention for sure.

This isn't to 'defend' Jake, it's just to point out that this team has multiple issues. Sure, would love for Jake to be replaced. But I'm to the point I want DA moved before anyone else. He makes some great trades, but the vision of the team's identity and long-term build seems to fluctuate too much from season to season as the 'new Cup winner has shown us that this style is the way to go'.

DA's vision sucks, you have to come out and be the team that makes everyone play against you, not play their way.

My prediction: When we trade Tarasenko or Petro, we're going to end up taking a lesser return to get whatever team they're going to to take on Allen. And we'll still have to eat ~1M of Allen's salary per year.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:35 am My prediction: When we trade Tarasenko or Petro, we're going to end up taking a lesser return to get whatever team they're going to to take on Allen. And we'll still have to eat ~1M of Allen's salary per year.

Maybe if we throw in a bag of pucks and some water bottles.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:35 am My prediction: When we trade Tarasenko or Petro, we're going to end up taking a lesser return to get whatever team they're going to to take on Allen. And we'll still have to eat ~1M of Allen's salary per year.

I see it, it's a bitter pill, but it's Stillman's to take.

Then hopefully the rebuild doesn't get bungled.