barcthespark wrote:Although players who play here say they love the city, I wouldn't be surprised if the city's well earned crime-ridden reputation keeps some players away.

Detroit had no problem luring players on the ‘90s and ‘00s. A pending FA needs something.... great city, great team, great coach, hometown, great hockey tradition... etc.... where’s the appeal for the Blues? They can’t outbid anyone else, and they have nothing else to offer... and they won’t have anything until they make changes they don’t appear willing to make.

Matangama wrote:

barcthespark wrote:Although players who play here say they love the city, I wouldn't be surprised if the city's well earned crime-ridden reputation keeps some players away.

Maybe barc, but that’s an easy issue to overcome........”hey Mr. Free Agent, avoid the 8 or 10 square block area that accounts for 99.9% of the crime in St. Louis.”

Problem solved!

Not really.
The amount of violent crime in areas other than North city and North county has increased dramatically. Add that to the racial attitudes in many areas, and I can see why a lot of people are reluctant to bring their families to this area.

barnburner wrote:

Matangama wrote:

barcthespark wrote:Although players who play here say they love the city, I wouldn't be surprised if the city's well earned crime-ridden reputation keeps some players away.

Maybe barc, but that’s an easy issue to overcome........”hey Mr. Free Agent, avoid the 8 or 10 square block area that accounts for 99.9% of the crime in St. Louis.”

Problem solved!

Not really.
The amount of violent crime in areas other than North city and North county has increased dramatically. Add that to the racial attitudes in many areas, and I can see why a lot of people are reluctant to bring their families to this area.

Agreed. Heck, the central west end, one of the higher money areas in the city just had a rash of armed robberies and kidnappings.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

barnburner wrote:

Matangama wrote:
Maybe barc, but that’s an easy issue to overcome........”hey Mr. Free Agent, avoid the 8 or 10 square block area that accounts for 99.9% of the crime in St. Louis.”

Problem solved!

Not really.
The amount of violent crime in areas other than North city and North county has increased dramatically. Add that to the racial attitudes in many areas, and I can see why a lot of people are reluctant to bring their families to this area.

Agreed. Heck, the central west end, one of the higher money areas in the city just had a rash of armed robberies and kidnappings.

Yeah, the safe areas are no longer so safe, especially for women and kids. While it's not open warfare yet, the escalation in violent crime is alarming.
Car jackings have become almost routine all over the area, not to mention the possibility of bullets flying on the interstates.
My wife used to drive everywhere by herself, but has now become very reluctant to cross the river alone anymore.
Heck, I've even become more careful. I used to ride the Metrolink routinely for Blues and Cardinals games. No more. Their security is almost non existent, and the thugs know it.

Cotton McKnight wrote:Can't wait to see what over payment DA offers for the scraps that are left. /s

DA is pretty much in a tight spot. If most FA signings are off the table and everyone agrees that changes need to be made, "overpaying" is about the only option available. You try to develop as many prospects as possible, but even if you get high draft picks, it is still a crap shoot.

Rivermanfan wrote:

Cotton McKnight wrote:Can't wait to see what over payment DA offers for the scraps that are left. /s

DA is pretty much in a tight spot. If most FA signings are off the table and everyone agrees that changes need to be made, "overpaying" is about the only option available. You try to develop as many prospects as possible, but even if you get high draft picks, it is still a crap shoot.

I don’t recall a time when DA wasn’t in a tight spot... he can’t ever seem to get himself in a good position to make deals.

Rivermanfan wrote:

Cotton McKnight wrote:Can't wait to see what over payment DA offers for the scraps that are left. /s

DA is pretty much in a tight spot. If most FA signings are off the table and everyone agrees that changes need to be made, "overpaying" is about the only option available. You try to develop as many prospects as possible, but even if you get high draft picks, it is still a crap shoot.

That's exactly my point, you're losing if you're overpaying. DA has done nothing, no trade, no signing. Don't talk to to me about JT. If Doug wanted him, he would have found a way. If Doug wanted a deal, he would have found a way to make any deal. Doug hasn't been doing much to try to rebuild this team.

All I hear is excuses. Tired of that. Clearly our teams management is filled with excuses.

Doug got his 4 more years, so now he's doing nothing, again.

The city is still only a few years out from what was a major socio-political controversy (Ferguson). While no one can prove that would be causing players not wanting to play here, it certainly didn’t help the cities reputation. Like, I live in Kentucky now, and one of the first things people ask me when I tell them I’m from STL is if I lived by Ferguson. Quite a big deal was made about it by national media, and that’s the first thing a lot of people think about when they hear “St. Louis,” unfortunately.

Cotton McKnight wrote:

Rivermanfan wrote:

Cotton McKnight wrote:Can't wait to see what over payment DA offers for the scraps that are left. /s

DA is pretty much in a tight spot. If most FA signings are off the table and everyone agrees that changes need to be made, "overpaying" is about the only option available. You try to develop as many prospects as possible, but even if you get high draft picks, it is still a crap shoot.

That's exactly my point, you're losing if you're overpaying. DA has done nothing, no trade, no signing. Don't talk to to me about JT. If Doug wanted him, he would have found a way. If Doug wanted a deal, he would have found a way to make any deal. Doug hasn't been doing much to try to rebuild this team.

All I hear is excuses. Tired of that. Clearly our teams management is filled with excuses.

Doug got his 4 more years, so now he's doing nothing, again.

Cotton, I get the frustration and agree to an extent.........but we are still 8 days away from free agency! How exactly is he going to sign anyone? Kovalchuk was the only guy that could sign yet, and he obviously wanted to play in a big market. The stuff about JT excluding St. Louis (and about 26 other teams) looks unconfirmed, or at least the specific teams do. Hey, every Blues fan is frustrated, but let’s give it at least 8 days. If nothing then, I’ll lead the charge!

Matangama wrote:

Cotton McKnight wrote:

Rivermanfan wrote:
DA is pretty much in a tight spot. If most FA signings are off the table and everyone agrees that changes need to be made, "overpaying" is about the only option available. You try to develop as many prospects as possible, but even if you get high draft picks, it is still a crap shoot.

That's exactly my point, you're losing if you're overpaying. DA has done nothing, no trade, no signing. Don't talk to to me about JT. If Doug wanted him, he would have found a way. If Doug wanted a deal, he would have found a way to make any deal. Doug hasn't been doing much to try to rebuild this team.

All I hear is excuses. Tired of that. Clearly our teams management is filled with excuses.

Doug got his 4 more years, so now he's doing nothing, again.

Cotton, I get the frustration and agree to an extent.........but we are still 8 days away from free agency! How exactly is he going to sign anyone? Kovalchuk was the only guy that could sign yet, and he obviously wanted to play in a big market. The stuff about JT excluding St. Louis (and about 26 other teams) looks unconfirmed, or at least the specific teams do. Hey, every Blues fan is frustrated, but let’s give it at least 8 days. If nothing then, I’ll lead the charge!

I've done my share of criticizing DA, but how can we blame him for not being able to sign Taveres? As a free agent, you can't force the guy to go someplace he doesn't want to be. In fact, if he doesn't want to be here, then how motivated would he be to play here, even if we could make him come?
Right now, I'm much more concerned about him doing something about the goalie situation. Until that's fixed, the rest is just window dressing.

Matangama wrote:

Cotton McKnight wrote:

Rivermanfan wrote:
DA is pretty much in a tight spot. If most FA signings are off the table and everyone agrees that changes need to be made, "overpaying" is about the only option available. You try to develop as many prospects as possible, but even if you get high draft picks, it is still a crap shoot.

That's exactly my point, you're losing if you're overpaying. DA has done nothing, no trade, no signing. Don't talk to to me about JT. If Doug wanted him, he would have found a way. If Doug wanted a deal, he would have found a way to make any deal. Doug hasn't been doing much to try to rebuild this team.

All I hear is excuses. Tired of that. Clearly our teams management is filled with excuses.

Doug got his 4 more years, so now he's doing nothing, again.

Cotton, I get the frustration and agree to an extent.........but we are still 8 days away from free agency! How exactly is he going to sign anyone? Kovalchuk was the only guy that could sign yet, and he obviously wanted to play in a big market. The stuff about JT excluding St. Louis (and about 26 other teams) looks unconfirmed, or at least the specific teams do. Hey, every Blues fan is frustrated, but let’s give it at least 8 days. If nothing then, I’ll lead the charge!

It's not as if I have any pull on this team, but ownership should not be happy with our immediate situation. There's a possible future here, but I don't believe it's through FA for this organization, it's going to be through trading, it always has been.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:https://theathletic.com/404762/2018/06/ ... -the-club/

Joining Kovachuk and Panarin as players who have told the Blues no this off-season.

From the article linked above: And late Friday night, The Athletic’s Arthur Staple identified the five clubs that Tavares, the New York Islanders’ prized free-agent-to-be, has interest in meeting next week, and the Blues are not among them. The top three are Toronto, San Jose and Dallas, and Tampa and LA also appear in the mix.

Sorry I'm behind on the news. You mean Panarin's agent told the Blues he isn't interested in coming here?

BillP wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:https://theathletic.com/404762/2018/06/ ... -the-club/

Joining Kovachuk and Panarin as players who have told the Blues no this off-season.

From the article linked above: And late Friday night, The Athletic’s Arthur Staple identified the five clubs that Tavares, the New York Islanders’ prized free-agent-to-be, has interest in meeting next week, and the Blues are not among them. The top three are Toronto, San Jose and Dallas, and Tampa and LA also appear in the mix.

Sorry I'm behind on the news. You mean Panarin's agent told the Blues he isn't interested in coming here?

Panarin only wants to play in NY, LA or Chicago was what I heard. I would imagine he's gonna end up back with the Hawks

NHLTIM wrote:

BillP wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:https://theathletic.com/404762/2018/06/ ... -the-club/

Joining Kovachuk and Panarin as players who have told the Blues no this off-season.

From the article linked above: And late Friday night, The Athletic’s Arthur Staple identified the five clubs that Tavares, the New York Islanders’ prized free-agent-to-be, has interest in meeting next week, and the Blues are not among them. The top three are Toronto, San Jose and Dallas, and Tampa and LA also appear in the mix.

Sorry I'm behind on the news. You mean Panarin's agent told the Blues he isn't interested in coming here?

Panarin only wants to play in NY, LA or Chicago was what I heard. I would imagine he's gonna end up back with the Hawks

Thanks for the update

barnburner wrote:

Matangama wrote:

Cotton McKnight wrote:
That's exactly my point, you're losing if you're overpaying. DA has done nothing, no trade, no signing. Don't talk to to me about JT. If Doug wanted him, he would have found a way. If Doug wanted a deal, he would have found a way to make any deal. Doug hasn't been doing much to try to rebuild this team.

All I hear is excuses. Tired of that. Clearly our teams management is filled with excuses.

Doug got his 4 more years, so now he's doing nothing, again.

Cotton, I get the frustration and agree to an extent.........but we are still 8 days away from free agency! How exactly is he going to sign anyone? Kovalchuk was the only guy that could sign yet, and he obviously wanted to play in a big market. The stuff about JT excluding St. Louis (and about 26 other teams) looks unconfirmed, or at least the specific teams do. Hey, every Blues fan is frustrated, but let’s give it at least 8 days. If nothing then, I’ll lead the charge!

I've done my share of criticizing DA, but how can we blame him for not being able to sign Taveres? As a free agent, you can't force the guy to go someplace he doesn't want to be. In fact, if he doesn't want to be here, then how motivated would he be to play here, even if we could make him come?
Right now, I'm much more concerned about him doing something about the goalie situation. Until that's fixed, the rest is just window dressing.

The Blues are a team that does not attract free agents. Put together a good team with some promise, a great coach.... something to get excited about... and then perhaps players will want to come. That’s how you blame DA.

barnburner wrote:

Matangama wrote:

Cotton McKnight wrote:
That's exactly my point, you're losing if you're overpaying. DA has done nothing, no trade, no signing. Don't talk to to me about JT. If Doug wanted him, he would have found a way. If Doug wanted a deal, he would have found a way to make any deal. Doug hasn't been doing much to try to rebuild this team.

All I hear is excuses. Tired of that. Clearly our teams management is filled with excuses.

Doug got his 4 more years, so now he's doing nothing, again.

Cotton, I get the frustration and agree to an extent.........but we are still 8 days away from free agency! How exactly is he going to sign anyone? Kovalchuk was the only guy that could sign yet, and he obviously wanted to play in a big market. The stuff about JT excluding St. Louis (and about 26 other teams) looks unconfirmed, or at least the specific teams do. Hey, every Blues fan is frustrated, but let’s give it at least 8 days. If nothing then, I’ll lead the charge!

I've done my share of criticizing DA, but how can we blame him for not being able to sign Taveres? As a free agent, you can't force the guy to go someplace he doesn't want to be. In fact, if he doesn't want to be here, then how motivated would he be to play here, even if we could make him come?
Right now, I'm much more concerned about him doing something about the goalie situation. Until that's fixed, the rest is just window dressing.

The Blues are a team that does not attract free agents. Put together a good team with some promise, a great coach.... something to get excited about... and then perhaps players will want to come. That’s how you blame DA.

Cotton McKnight wrote:Can't wait to see what over payment DA offers for the scraps that are left. /s

What about James Neal? How bout signing him than trading for Skinner? There's still things the Blues can do to put this team together. They got some kids that will be available to play and you can find other alternatives to improve this team. But see, that style of management DA has is burning him now. His attitude of its illogical to make a deal for the sake of making a deal is bull shit IMO. That just tells me you don't know where you want to go or know what you want to do. Now this team still has crap to unload, we got kids backed up in the pipeline ready to play, and we still don't have a definitive 2nd line. It's kind of a mess to say the least.

insideout wrote:

barnburner wrote:

Matangama wrote:

Cotton, I get the frustration and agree to an extent.........but we are still 8 days away from free agency! How exactly is he going to sign anyone? Kovalchuk was the only guy that could sign yet, and he obviously wanted to play in a big market. The stuff about JT excluding St. Louis (and about 26 other teams) looks unconfirmed, or at least the specific teams do. Hey, every Blues fan is frustrated, but let’s give it at least 8 days. If nothing then, I’ll lead the charge!

I've done my share of criticizing DA, but how can we blame him for not being able to sign Taveres? As a free agent, you can't force the guy to go someplace he doesn't want to be. In fact, if he doesn't want to be here, then how motivated would he be to play here, even if we could make him come?
Right now, I'm much more concerned about him doing something about the goalie situation. Until that's fixed, the rest is just window dressing.

The Blues are a team that does not attract free agents. Put together a good team with some promise, a great coach.... something to get excited about... and then perhaps players will want to come. That’s how you blame DA.

First you have to get the great players, and the great coach. Hard to do, when athletes don't want to come here because of the crime and racial strife.
Sure if you become a winner, then it's easier to attract those players, but when free agency, and no move contracts give the power to the player, it's a tough sell.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:I wonder how much the city as a whole is impacting free agents coming here? The Cardinals can't lure free agents either. This city doesn't have a good reputation on great places to live in America.

I was wondering that the other day Dread. All this talk about players who've played here and they don't want to leave STL after their playing days, I wonder if that still holds true? It was back in the day, but I have my doubts now. I would say its not nearly as prevalent as it used to be. JMO

barnburner wrote:

insideout wrote:

barnburner wrote:
I've done my share of criticizing DA, but how can we blame him for not being able to sign Taveres? As a free agent, you can't force the guy to go someplace he doesn't want to be. In fact, if he doesn't want to be here, then how motivated would he be to play here, even if we could make him come?
Right now, I'm much more concerned about him doing something about the goalie situation. Until that's fixed, the rest is just window dressing.

The Blues are a team that does not attract free agents. Put together a good team with some promise, a great coach.... something to get excited about... and then perhaps players will want to come. That’s how you blame DA.

First you have to get the great players, and the great coach. Hard to do, when athletes don't want to come here because of the crime and racial strife.
Sure if you become a winner, then it's easier to attract those players, but when free agency, and no move contracts give the power to the player, it's a tough sell.

Sorry, I refuse to believe they can’t do better than Mike Yeo. And I refuse to believe Armstrong could’t Have gotten any great players since he’s been GM. Just one example: I can’t imagine he couldn’t have landed Hall. Like I said in another post, Detroit was a dump in the ‘90s and ‘00s, and they had no problem attracting talent.

insideout wrote:

barnburner wrote:

insideout wrote:
The Blues are a team that does not attract free agents. Put together a good team with some promise, a great coach.... something to get excited about... and then perhaps players will want to come. That’s how you blame DA.

First you have to get the great players, and the great coach. Hard to do, when athletes don't want to come here because of the crime and racial strife.
Sure if you become a winner, then it's easier to attract those players, but when free agency, and no move contracts give the power to the player, it's a tough sell.

Sorry, I refuse to believe they can’t do better than Mike Yeo. And I refuse to believe Armstrong could’t Have gotten any great players since he’s been GM. Just one example: I can’t imagine he couldn’t have landed Hall. Like I said in another post, Detroit was a dump in the ‘90s and ‘00s, and they had no problem attracting talent.

So all Armstrong has to do is get rid of the salary cap, have an owner that pays more than everyone else, and draft a of a handful of Hall of Famers after literally resorting to espionage to get some of them to come to North America. Get on it Doug!

insideout wrote:

barnburner wrote:

insideout wrote:
The Blues are a team that does not attract free agents. Put together a good team with some promise, a great coach.... something to get excited about... and then perhaps players will want to come. That’s how you blame DA.

First you have to get the great players, and the great coach. Hard to do, when athletes don't want to come here because of the crime and racial strife.
Sure if you become a winner, then it's easier to attract those players, but when free agency, and no move contracts give the power to the player, it's a tough sell.

Sorry, I refuse to believe they can’t do better than Mike Yeo. And I refuse to believe Armstrong could’t Have gotten any great players since he’s been GM. Just one example: I can’t imagine he couldn’t have landed Hall. Like I said in another post, Detroit was a dump in the ‘90s and ‘00s, and they had no problem attracting talent.

That's because from the 90-91 season till the 11-12 season, the Red Wings finished 1st or 2nd in their division every year. They won 4 Stanley Cups in that period & lost in the Finals 3 times. You wanna attract players? It's simple. Win.

usmcaaron wrote:

insideout wrote:

barnburner wrote:
First you have to get the great players, and the great coach. Hard to do, when athletes don't want to come here because of the crime and racial strife.
Sure if you become a winner, then it's easier to attract those players, but when free agency, and no move contracts give the power to the player, it's a tough sell.

Sorry, I refuse to believe they can’t do better than Mike Yeo. And I refuse to believe Armstrong could’t Have gotten any great players since he’s been GM. Just one example: I can’t imagine he couldn’t have landed Hall. Like I said in another post, Detroit was a dump in the ‘90s and ‘00s, and they had no problem attracting talent.

That's because from the 90-91 season till the 11-12 season, the Red Wings finished 1st or 2nd in their division every year. They won 4 Stanley Cups in that period & lost in the Finals 3 times. You wanna attract players? It's simple. Win.

Or at the very least put yourself on the right path. Even a bit of positive trajectory would be nice.

Maybe Bergevin will do us a favor and sign Paul Stastny. Canadiens need help at Center. Just sayin...……..

It was a nice dream, but that was it. As has been said, we are only going to build a winner via trades and draft, along with the occasional filler UFA.

I like Billy's idea about Neal, he's exactly what we need, or trade some 'baggage' and prospect for Skinner. And while I understand RAs and others hesitation to put Thomas in the top six, he may surprise us:

Schwartz/Schenn/Neal-Skinner
Fabbri/Thomas/Tarasenko
Kyrou/Berglund/Thompson-Kostin-Sanford
Steen-Sobi/Barby/Soshnikov



That's a lineup I'd enjoy watching, and I'd think it'd bring an improvement to our scoring, without sacrificing our D depths so we keep Parayko