BluesSK wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:57 am

Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:54 am

Ozzies09tc wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:29 pm
As for THIS offseason:

Step 1:
Re-sign Perron - In a perfect world Army/Perron agree to a 3x3
Extend ROR to a longer lower cap hit contract
Trade Scandella for a pick/salary dump

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Profit

Love that plan. Seems reasonable. DPW will surely figure out Step 2 during his Summer as GM. I wonder about the timing of ROR's extension. I'm sure Armstrong doesn't want a repeat of the Petro situation, though that really didn't become a sideshow until after the season. I'd imagine at the very least it leads to a more proactive approach akin to Schenn's extension. He was younger at the time of signing, but still signed his deal in October, right as the last season of his contract started.

I'm not sure how much it will apply to St. Louis, but one team who's offseason could be extremely interesting is Boston. Bergeron might be retiring, Marchand and others are going to be injured for the first part of the season, they just fired their head coach, and Pastrnak is apparently unhappy and unlikely to sign an extension entering the last year of his deal. If he won't sign, they HAVE to trade him. If Pastrnak is traded and Bergeron retires, it'll be time to blow that up.

I'm fully in favor of blowing Marchand up.

Tougher than you think. He'll lick the fuse before it gets to the explosives.

Turk Sanderson wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:19 am

Turk Sanderson wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:07 am I don't believe that we've seen the best of Prune yet... he was given very sheltered minutes on the power play because of his wrist...if Krug hadn't been hurt, we probably wouldn't have seen him at all...too early to move on from him...but I sure would move on from Krug and that contract...that money can be better spent at this point, especially on a more physical LD. When Prune is fully healed, he'll be better than the small sample we saw this year.

Because they are redundant players. Right now Prune is a poor man's version of Krug. I just don't see them having both and Krug and Faulk were brilliant together when they were healthy.

If you're moving a d-man just to move his contract it's Parayko's you explore.

If Army can upgrade 55, I'd be all for it...as long as he moves Krug too.

I'd keep 55 but I would love to dump Krug for that 7th pick in Ottawa.

The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

I would be shocked if Perron signs a 3 year deal that starts with more than 4. Frankly I think to get 4 plus he'll have to go 2 years. He earned it, but forwards his age are terrifying at 3 year term.

Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:29 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

I would be shocked if Perron signs a 3 year deal that starts with more than 4. Frankly I think to get 4 plus he'll have to go 2 years. He earned it, but forwards his age are terrifying at 3 year term.

All it takes is 2-3 teams to be after him and one to offer the extra year to get his name on the paper. I can see it happening. I hope it doesn't, but it's NHL free agency, where teams love over extending on dollars and term.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

Those numbers seem kind of ridiculous.

BluesSK wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:06 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

Those numbers seem kind of ridiculous.

I think Husso is gonezo either way, but Perron is a tough call at his age...I think that I'd pass if that's the demand.

BluesSK wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:06 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

Those numbers seem kind of ridiculous.

A lot of desperate GMs with a short leash who may think, well if I don’t win this year then years 2-3-4 or whatever will be someone else’s problem to deal with.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:38 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:29 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

I would be shocked if Perron signs a 3 year deal that starts with more than 4. Frankly I think to get 4 plus he'll have to go 2 years. He earned it, but forwards his age are terrifying at 3 year term.

All it takes is 2-3 teams to be after him and one to offer the extra year to get his name on the paper. I can see it happening. I hope it doesn't, but it's NHL free agency, where teams love over extending on dollars and term.

The other thing that always happens in NHL free agency is that David Perron signs a contract with the Blues. This would mark the sixth time he's signed a contract with St. Louis. Also if I had to bet, I'd say he signs before free agency opens up (I think 7/13 or so instead of 7/1 this year).

If Army just hadn't given Scandella 3.25 million a year after a cup of coffee with the team, Perron would be a non issue. I don't want him to do the same with Leddy.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:00 am If Army just hadn't given Scandella 3.25 million a year after a cup of coffee with the team, Perron would be a non issue. I don't want him to do the same with Leddy.

I hope, against great odds, that Army will be able to keep Tarasenko, trade off Scandella, re-sign Perron, re-sign Leddy (for a nice discount), AND, also trade for a top 4 defenceman. Not good odds of all that happening, I assume.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

Army already braced us at the news conference that Perron beats father time 95 to 99 percent better than everyone else in NHL. So don’t be surprised if Perron gets an extra year of term in return for a discounted price.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:00 am If Army just hadn't given Scandella 3.25 million a year after a cup of coffee with the team, Perron would be a non issue. I don't want him to do the same with Leddy.

At the time I think the consensus was good contract. He is a plus 31 in 119 games here.

BluesSK wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:06 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm The Athletic put out their top FA's and included projected contracts for them

Perron 3 years at 6.1 mil per
Husso 4 years at 5 mil per

If those are the contracts they are looking at this offseason then Husso is 100% gone and at 6 million per year thats a hard number to bring Perron back for such a cap strapped team. You'd definitely have to offload some money to make that work and upgrade other areas that are needed.

https://theathletic.com/3355725/2022/06 ... -ufa-2022/

Those numbers seem kind of ridiculous.

I agree that Husso's numbers are ridiculous. No way ANY NHL team gives him $5 million a year. He showed a lot of his weaknesses during the playoffs. He MAY be able to get $1+ million MORE a year from another NHL team than he'll be offered from The Blues, and probably get a year or two more, as well. But, I'm guessing that he'll get $3million to $3.5 million. I think Perron will only get a 2-year offer from The Blues, for between $5 million and $5.5 million. I think he'll stay with The Blues for $5.5 million. He's made plenty of money, and I'm sure he won't want to uproot his family again for a difference that won't really affect their lifestyle.

So Armstrong has never done this, but if he were to buyout Scandella's contract, it would save $2.7M next season, $1.85M the year after that, then have $1.1M in added cap each of the 2 years after that. Just food for thought.

BillP. wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm

Turk Sanderson wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:19 am

Because they are redundant players. Right now Prune is a poor man's version of Krug. I just don't see them having both and Krug and Faulk were brilliant together when they were healthy.

If you're moving a d-man just to move his contract it's Parayko's you explore.

If Army can upgrade 55, I'd be all for it...as long as he moves Krug too.

I'd keep 55 but I would love to dump Krug for that 7th pick in Ottawa.

Why would Ottawa do that??? It's not like they are one puck-moving defence man away from being a top contender for The Stanley Cup. Krug has a relatively high salary for his level of defensive skills. If I were their GM, I'd want to get a proven top-tier NHL player for that high draft choice. Having low-cost high skill difference makers is at a premium in theses cap-restraining times. Getting those super difference-makers at a low cost for their entire rookie contracts. is a key to building a top contending roster. Getting them through the draft and raising them in your own system, rather than paying a premium in roster building capital and paying them super-high salaries for their entire stay with your team, is the best way to go. I don't see Ottawa trading that pick to The Blues for just Krug. I don't see The Blues trading Kyrou + a little extra for that pick. IF Ottawa would even consider trading it, it would be auctioned off to the highest bidder. I don't see Army overbidding just to get a #7 pick in a draft where the 7th pick is not already touted as having superstar upside potential.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:00 am If Army just hadn't given Scandella 3.25 million a year after a cup of coffee with the team, Perron would be a non issue. I don't want him to do the same with Leddy.

Leddy helped The Blues immensely, by helping his shift mates get the puck out of their end quickly, and start their rush to get the puck into the O-Zone without having to dump and chase. They got a lot more scoring chances since he arrived. His teaming with Parayko took a lot of pressure off the latter, allowing him to play better on both ends of the ice. I'd like him to be re-signed, especially if he'd take a discount just to be assured of playing with a contending team, rather than a dumpster team like he played for in Detroit. The Blues will need to add another Top 4 defence man even IF they re-sign Leddy. And IF they sign Leddy AND get a good, solid other one as well, they'll be able to compete with Colorado. They'd need to trade off Scandella, and Barbashev to stay under the Cap; but I'd be happy if they could get all that done.

Robb_K wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:24 am

BillP. wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm

Turk Sanderson wrote:
If Army can upgrade 55, I'd be all for it...as long as he moves Krug too.

I'd keep 55 but I would love to dump Krug for that 7th pick in Ottawa.

Why would Ottawa do that??? It's not like they are one puck-moving defence man away from being a top contender for The Stanley Cup. Krug has a relatively high salary for his level of defensive skills. If I were their GM, I'd want to get a proven top-tier NHL player for that high draft choice. Having low-cost high skill difference makers is at a premium in theses cap-restraining times. Getting those super difference-makers at a low cost for their entire rookie contracts. is a key to building a top contending roster. Getting them through the draft and raising them in your own system, rather than paying a premium in roster building capital and paying them super-high salaries for their entire stay with your team, is the best way to go. I don't see Ottawa trading that pick to The Blues for just Krug. I don't see The Blues trading Kyrou + a little extra for that pick. IF Ottawa would even consider trading it, it would be auctioned off to the highest bidder. I don't see Army overbidding just to get a #7 pick in a draft where the 7th pick is not already touted as having superstar upside potential.

It was reported a couple weeks ago on NHL.com that Ottawa was open to trading their 7th pick for a top 4 defenseman. A guy can wish can’t he?

BillP. wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:17 am

Robb_K wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:24 am

BillP. wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:14 pm

I'd keep 55 but I would love to dump Krug for that 7th pick in Ottawa.

Why would Ottawa do that??? It's not like they are one puck-moving defence man away from being a top contender for The Stanley Cup. Krug has a relatively high salary for his level of defensive skills. If I were their GM, I'd want to get a proven top-tier NHL player for that high draft choice. Having low-cost high skill difference makers is at a premium in theses cap-restraining times. Getting those super difference-makers at a low cost for their entire rookie contracts. is a key to building a top contending roster. Getting them through the draft and raising them in your own system, rather than paying a premium in roster building capital and paying them super-high salaries for their entire stay with your team, is the best way to go. I don't see Ottawa trading that pick to The Blues for just Krug. I don't see The Blues trading Kyrou + a little extra for that pick. IF Ottawa would even consider trading it, it would be auctioned off to the highest bidder. I don't see Army overbidding just to get a #7 pick in a draft where the 7th pick is not already touted as having superstar upside potential.

It was reported a couple weeks ago on NHL.com that Ottawa was open to trading their 7th pick for a top 4 defenseman. A guy can wish can’t he?

But why wish for something that closes the Cup window when all but 2 contributors are getting pretty old?

Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:09 am

BillP. wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:17 am

Robb_K wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:24 am
Why would Ottawa do that??? It's not like they are one puck-moving defence man away from being a top contender for The Stanley Cup. Krug has a relatively high salary for his level of defensive skills. If I were their GM, I'd want to get a proven top-tier NHL player for that high draft choice. Having low-cost high skill difference makers is at a premium in theses cap-restraining times. Getting those super difference-makers at a low cost for their entire rookie contracts. is a key to building a top contending roster. Getting them through the draft and raising them in your own system, rather than paying a premium in roster building capital and paying them super-high salaries for their entire stay with your team, is the best way to go. I don't see Ottawa trading that pick to The Blues for just Krug. I don't see The Blues trading Kyrou + a little extra for that pick. IF Ottawa would even consider trading it, it would be auctioned off to the highest bidder. I don't see Army overbidding just to get a #7 pick in a draft where the 7th pick is not already touted as having superstar upside potential.

It was reported a couple weeks ago on NHL.com that Ottawa was open to trading their 7th pick for a top 4 defenseman. A guy can wish can’t he?

But why wish for something that closes the Cup window when all but 2 contributors are getting pretty old?

I don't think trading Krug or Parayko closes that window as long as they reinvest the cap savings. With that said, this draft class isn't super top heavy.

I also think that The Blues fans that are impatient with Kyrou's inconsistency, poor play when he doesn't have the puck, lack of progress in his defensive game, and disappearing at times, and so, wanting Army to trade him off, are giving up on him early. The Blues need to shift the bulk of their core of key players from mainly the older ones towards being mainly the younger ones. Right now, their main core players that guarantee them a decent future is uncomfortably small, having only Thomas Buchnevich, Kyrou, and Perunovich. Trading off Kyrou for a veteran Top 4 defenceman, before he even has a chance to show what level of player he will become, is a big mistake, unless the defence man received in return is a already proven to be a can't-miss difference maker on The NHL level. It's difficult to find forwards with Kyrou's offensive upside, drafting near the end of The First round every year. Trading large amounts of player assets AND never having difference-making forwards on their low-cost rookie contracts, KILLS teams' chances of icing Cup championship teams, in the long run. So drafting and home-growing such players is a must. Trading off reasonable candidates to become such players too early is a bad mistake, unless they are replaced by a player of similar age or younger, and a similar or better upside. If I were Army, I'd be careful of letting Buchnevich, Thomas, or Kyrou go before we've seen a year or two more of them, given their recent breakouts, and their recent progression in their games.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:11 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:09 am

BillP. wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:17 am

It was reported a couple weeks ago on NHL.com that Ottawa was open to trading their 7th pick for a top 4 defenseman. A guy can wish can’t he?

But why wish for something that closes the Cup window when all but 2 contributors are getting pretty old?

I don't think trading Krug or Parayko closes that window as long as they reinvest the cap savings. With that said, this draft class isn't super top heavy.

Sure, but you'd just be reinvesting it to fill the hole you just created. The market for higher end defensemen has gone nuts in the short time since those guys signed. I just think that's an insane way to go about making cap savings.

Dave's a mess wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:11 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:09 am But why wish for something that closes the Cup window when all but 2 contributors are getting pretty old?

I don't think trading Krug or Parayko closes that window as long as they reinvest the cap savings. With that said, this draft class isn't super top heavy.

Sure, but you'd just be reinvesting it to fill the hole you just created. The market for higher end defensemen has gone nuts in the short time since those guys signed. I just think that's an insane way to go about making cap savings.

Parayko would be a hole, but I believe the Blues could maneuver around Krug's absence and be fine.

BillP. wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:19 pm

Dave's a mess wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:11 pm

I don't think trading Krug or Parayko closes that window as long as they reinvest the cap savings. With that said, this draft class isn't super top heavy.

Sure, but you'd just be reinvesting it to fill the hole you just created. The market for higher end defensemen has gone nuts in the short time since those guys signed. I just think that's an insane way to go about making cap savings.

Parayko would be a hole, but I believe the Blues could maneuver around Krug's absence and be fine.

I'm old enough to remember the Avs series where the Blues didn't have Krug and couldn't leave their own end for minutes at a time.

We always think we are over paying for a D-man but at their end of their contract it usually looks like a bargain.

(Scandella being the exception)