Re: News and Games around the NHL

3051
Dave's a mess wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:28 am
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:46 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:42 pm

I wouldn't call Mantha a fake tough guy, he just didn't want to jump Buchnevich despite the fact that he'd been a bit loose with the stick all night. Mantha's got a pretty long fight card.
When you try to pick fights well below your weight class you’re a fake tough guy. I only wish the stick had done more damage.
I get that, but when you run around hacking guys, eventually one of the big guys is going to step in. Mantha didn't do anything wrong, he tapped him a bunch after Buch took a run at him, then moved along with the play. Buchnevich could've declined and moved on. He did half of that.
When it’s Wilson, Chara, and Mantha coming for you it’s simply defending yourself. I personally think he should’ve been given a better weapon than just a stick to use. Maybe nunchucks.

The play was going in the opposite direction of Mantha, he shouldn’t have been in the way of Buch’s stick
Just a Russian propaganda account

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3052
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:14 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:28 am
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:46 am

When you try to pick fights well below your weight class you’re a fake tough guy. I only wish the stick had done more damage.
I get that, but when you run around hacking guys, eventually one of the big guys is going to step in. Mantha didn't do anything wrong, he tapped him a bunch after Buch took a run at him, then moved along with the play. Buchnevich could've declined and moved on. He did half of that.
When it’s Wilson, Chara, and Mantha coming for you it’s simply defending yourself. I personally think he should’ve been given a better weapon than just a stick to use. Maybe nunchucks.

The play was going in the opposite direction of Mantha, he shouldn’t have been in the way of Buch’s stick
After having some time to reflect on my post, I want to take it back. I think he should've been given a crossbow.
Just a Russian propaganda account

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3053
Dave's a mess wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:36 am
T.C. wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:56 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:41 pm

So I totally agree on Smith. There are probably like 3 guys in the league that Wilson wouldn't just crush in a fight, and Smith isn't one of them. But this highlights the problem with the NHL current disciplinary setup. Wilson does his thing Monday night. NHL fails to suspend for even 1 game, so Rangers are left to deal with it themselves. So Wilson's "punishment" for his actions Monday were a tiny fine, 4 of his teammates getting to win a fight, kicking Brendan Smith's ass, and to cap it all off, drawing a power play for his team. What lesson is Wilson supposed to learn other than to pull this shit more often?
this is why the enforcer role needs to come back. look at reaves, he can actually play the game pretty well. hell, parros too. and people wouldn't fuck around like that jerk off wilson.
The NHL doesn't want guys like Tony Twist or John Scott that are only in the League because they can beat everybody up. They want guys like Reaves and Wilson, that are tough, but can play a role well the rest of the time, and let the league supplementary dicscipline act as a deterrent for bad on ice behavior. The problem is that only works if the supplementary discipline actually disciplines. Then you get left with teams like the Rangers that are pissed off and left to dole out there own justice, but are ill equipped to do so. You have to pick a lane and commit to it, and the NHL has done a crappy job of it. If they want to get rid of dirty play and minimize nights like last night (though that was extreme), you have to make the supplementary discipline severe enough that players actually fear it enough to change behavior. It worked on hits to the head 10ish years ago, but now it's lost all it's teeth. Time to start over.
it's an agreement with NHLPA. i feel like the owners/GMs really don't care if the NHL wants to suspend a psychopath for infinity games, they have other pieces. it's the NHLPA that has always gone to the mat on these areas for their players. it's ridiculously short-sighted, as they always end up hurting their other players. just dumb as fuck. i think, if there is a game in which it is determined that supplemental discipline is appropriate, that players forfeits their salary for that game and has to match that amount out of pocket. it's not a crippling amount of money but it's significant. a $1m player would pay $25k, a $10m player would pay $250k. that's for a first offense, and it goes up from there, including eventually fining (a painfully significant amount of money) the coach, GM, organization, and permanent ban for the player.

Re: News and Games around the NHL

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:39 am
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:14 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:28 am

I get that, but when you run around hacking guys, eventually one of the big guys is going to step in. Mantha didn't do anything wrong, he tapped him a bunch after Buch took a run at him, then moved along with the play. Buchnevich could've declined and moved on. He did half of that.
When it’s Wilson, Chara, and Mantha coming for you it’s simply defending yourself. I personally think he should’ve been given a better weapon than just a stick to use. Maybe nunchucks.

The play was going in the opposite direction of Mantha, he shouldn’t have been in the way of Buch’s stick
After having some time to reflect on my post, I want to take it back. I think he should've been given a crossbow.
Maybe a trident 🔱

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3059
T.C. wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:46 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:36 am
T.C. wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:56 am

this is why the enforcer role needs to come back. look at reaves, he can actually play the game pretty well. hell, parros too. and people wouldn't fuck around like that jerk off wilson.
The NHL doesn't want guys like Tony Twist or John Scott that are only in the League because they can beat everybody up. They want guys like Reaves and Wilson, that are tough, but can play a role well the rest of the time, and let the league supplementary dicscipline act as a deterrent for bad on ice behavior. The problem is that only works if the supplementary discipline actually disciplines. Then you get left with teams like the Rangers that are pissed off and left to dole out there own justice, but are ill equipped to do so. You have to pick a lane and commit to it, and the NHL has done a crappy job of it. If they want to get rid of dirty play and minimize nights like last night (though that was extreme), you have to make the supplementary discipline severe enough that players actually fear it enough to change behavior. It worked on hits to the head 10ish years ago, but now it's lost all it's teeth. Time to start over.
it's an agreement with NHLPA. i feel like the owners/GMs really don't care if the NHL wants to suspend a psychopath for infinity games, they have other pieces. it's the NHLPA that has always gone to the mat on these areas for their players. it's ridiculously short-sighted, as they always end up hurting their other players. just dumb as fuck. i think, if there is a game in which it is determined that supplemental discipline is appropriate, that players forfeits their salary for that game and has to match that amount out of pocket. it's not a crippling amount of money but it's significant. a $1m player would pay $25k, a $10m player would pay $250k. that's for a first offense, and it goes up from there, including eventually fining (a painfully significant amount of money) the coach, GM, organization, and permanent ban for the player.
Yes, this is largely a CBA issue, but not entirely. DOPS is rightfully concerned about consistency in suspensions, but rarely do they actually take any action when there isn't really any precident, like with the Wilson thing the other night. They'd never issued a suspension for something exactly like that, but had 0 interest in doing so for the first time. Predicting suspension length for hits to head and normal hockey plays gone bad isn't that hard anymore since they have so many previous rulings to use. Figure out the base layer, then add a multiplier for previous history if applicable. When there isn't any, they punt, because they're not willing and/or able set new precident. That's on the League/Parros. When it's that easy to figure out the discipline for any serious fan, why do you need so many high executives in the department? If you're going to have a Department of Player Safety that's more than a glorified excel formula, put them to work to actually make the players safer.

The NHLPA is responsible for all the appeals that end up reducing the biggest suspensions for the dirtiest players. That's always gross since the guy in the hospital is a member of the union too. Bottom line, it's going to take both the League and PA to work together to make any real change, and given their history, I don't like the odds.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: News and Games around the NHL

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BluesSK wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:07 pm Let's imagine for a moment if the first thing that hit the ice was Panarin's skull. It would have made the Bertuzzi-Moore incident look like patty-cake.

$5000 fine. Yeah, about right. The NHL should honestly be ashamed of itself.

But it's really ok because ratings!
The entire league management should be replaced with people that have, at the least, a modicum of ethics. The "favorite team"/"special player" favoritism is so blatant even my 12 year old grandson comments on it.

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3061
Dave's a mess wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:12 pm
T.C. wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:46 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:36 am

The NHL doesn't want guys like Tony Twist or John Scott that are only in the League because they can beat everybody up. They want guys like Reaves and Wilson, that are tough, but can play a role well the rest of the time, and let the league supplementary dicscipline act as a deterrent for bad on ice behavior. The problem is that only works if the supplementary discipline actually disciplines. Then you get left with teams like the Rangers that are pissed off and left to dole out there own justice, but are ill equipped to do so. You have to pick a lane and commit to it, and the NHL has done a crappy job of it. If they want to get rid of dirty play and minimize nights like last night (though that was extreme), you have to make the supplementary discipline severe enough that players actually fear it enough to change behavior. It worked on hits to the head 10ish years ago, but now it's lost all it's teeth. Time to start over.
it's an agreement with NHLPA. i feel like the owners/GMs really don't care if the NHL wants to suspend a psychopath for infinity games, they have other pieces. it's the NHLPA that has always gone to the mat on these areas for their players. it's ridiculously short-sighted, as they always end up hurting their other players. just dumb as fuck. i think, if there is a game in which it is determined that supplemental discipline is appropriate, that players forfeits their salary for that game and has to match that amount out of pocket. it's not a crippling amount of money but it's significant. a $1m player would pay $25k, a $10m player would pay $250k. that's for a first offense, and it goes up from there, including eventually fining (a painfully significant amount of money) the coach, GM, organization, and permanent ban for the player.
Yes, this is largely a CBA issue, but not entirely. DOPS is rightfully concerned about consistency in suspensions, but rarely do they actually take any action when there isn't really any precident, like with the Wilson thing the other night. They'd never issued a suspension for something exactly like that, but had 0 interest in doing so for the first time. Predicting suspension length for hits to head and normal hockey plays gone bad isn't that hard anymore since they have so many previous rulings to use. Figure out the base layer, then add a multiplier for previous history if applicable. When there isn't any, they punt, because they're not willing and/or able set new precident. That's on the League/Parros. When it's that easy to figure out the discipline for any serious fan, why do you need so many high executives in the department? If you're going to have a Department of Player Safety that's more than a glorified excel formula, put them to work to actually make the players safer.

The NHLPA is responsible for all the appeals that end up reducing the biggest suspensions for the dirtiest players. That's always gross since the guy in the hospital is a member of the union too. Bottom line, it's going to take both the League and PA to work together to make any real change, and given their history, I don't like the odds.
If the league can't police itself, eventually someone is gonna get fucked up real bad, and they will be back in the courts again. Don't want to see that, but it would be a pretty easy case to win for the injured guy. Can you imagine Bettman and Parros explaining their record of punishing bad behavior? Words draw bigger fines than injurious actions.

Re: News and Games around the NHL

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Aesa wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:12 pmThe entire league management should be replaced with people that have, at the least, a modicum of ethics. The "favorite team"/"special player" favoritism is so blatant even my 12 year old grandson comments on it.
Better hush up that talk, Grandpa. You're gonna get your 12 y-o grandson slapped with a $250k fine.

Re: News and Games around the NHL

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:13 am What a disaster for the league. They are a complete joke run by a total clown. Also, fines are only punishment if you're poor. The Rangers are not, Tom Wilson is not.



That's why in those releases they always say $5K is the most they're able to fine them per CBA. Basically saying it's the PA's fault. Of course in this case it's also their own fault for not actually suspending him. It'd be funny if the Rangers put this release out because they knew their fine would be far more than Wilson's, but I don't think Dolan is anywhere near smart enough to think 2 steps ahead, he's just a whiny pissbaby.

But anyway, fire Parros.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: News and Games around the NHL

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JMC-STL wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:53 pm
Aesa wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:12 pmThe entire league management should be replaced with people that have, at the least, a modicum of ethics. The "favorite team"/"special player" favoritism is so blatant even my 12 year old grandson comments on it.
Better hush up that talk, Grandpa. You're gonna get your 12 y-o grandson slapped with a $250k fine.
Hope they come to my house to try to collect. It would be interesting to say the least. :mrgreen:

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3068
Buch should've never been on the ice for Wilson to hit to ensue the panarin fiasco

Buch did a dirty hit to OV that injured him and instead of giving him a misconduct they did nothing. Then Buch starts whacking at their goalie so Wilson politely reminds him of his presence on the ice. Now the refs, knowing Wilson is on the ice, should've been hovering around to grab him knowing full well what was going to happen...but they wimped out and grabbed smaller guys allowing panarin to get free shots to Wilson and if you pull the lions tail...........

Coincidentally, Crosby did the same thing to a player that same night only he smashed the guys head in to the ice THREE times and no one is calling him a goon or needing a trident....

resume the witch hunt and probably flaming me for this post
I hope Snuggerud beats the shit out of Kyrou

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3071
Ozzies09tc wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:44 pm Buch should've never been on the ice for Wilson to hit to ensue the panarin fiasco

Buch did a dirty hit to OV that injured him and instead of giving him a misconduct they did nothing. Then Buch starts whacking at their goalie so Wilson politely reminds him of his presence on the ice. Now the refs, knowing Wilson is on the ice, should've been hovering around to grab him knowing full well what was going to happen...but they wimped out and grabbed smaller guys allowing panarin to get free shots to Wilson and if you pull the lions tail...........

Coincidentally, Crosby did the same thing to a player that same night only he smashed the guys head in to the ice THREE times and no one is calling him a goon or needing a trident....

resume the witch hunt and probably flaming me for this post
If you can watch Wilson against the Rangers and Crosby against Koneckny and say they're the same thing I'm not sure this conversation is going to be very productive.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3072
Dave's a mess wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:19 pm
Ozzies09tc wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:44 pm Buch should've never been on the ice for Wilson to hit to ensue the panarin fiasco

Buch did a dirty hit to OV that injured him and instead of giving him a misconduct they did nothing. Then Buch starts whacking at their goalie so Wilson politely reminds him of his presence on the ice. Now the refs, knowing Wilson is on the ice, should've been hovering around to grab him knowing full well what was going to happen...but they wimped out and grabbed smaller guys allowing panarin to get free shots to Wilson and if you pull the lions tail...........

Coincidentally, Crosby did the same thing to a player that same night only he smashed the guys head in to the ice THREE times and no one is calling him a goon or needing a trident....

resume the witch hunt and probably flaming me for this post
If you can watch Wilson against the Rangers and Crosby against Koneckny and say they're the same thing I'm not sure this conversation is going to be very productive.
This is only a big deal bc it involves Tom Wilson. If TW "slammed panarin's head into the ice"...why did he suffer a LOWER body injury?

The main difference is konecny had his helmet on but the INTENT was the same
I hope Snuggerud beats the shit out of Kyrou

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3073
Ozzies09tc wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:44 pm Buch should've never been on the ice for Wilson to hit to ensue the panarin fiasco

Buch did a dirty hit to OV that injured him and instead of giving him a misconduct they did nothing. Then Buch starts whacking at their goalie so Wilson politely reminds him of his presence on the ice. Now the refs, knowing Wilson is on the ice, should've been hovering around to grab him knowing full well what was going to happen...but they wimped out and grabbed smaller guys allowing panarin to get free shots to Wilson and if you pull the lions tail...........

Coincidentally, Crosby did the same thing to a player that same night only he smashed the guys head in to the ice THREE times and no one is calling him a goon or needing a trident....

resume the witch hunt and probably flaming me for this post
The trident 🔱 thing was clearly a joke. Have you ever tried to take a slapshot with a trident? 😄

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3074
BluesSK wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:11 pm
Ozzies09tc wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:44 pm Buch should've never been on the ice for Wilson to hit to ensue the panarin fiasco

Buch did a dirty hit to OV that injured him and instead of giving him a misconduct they did nothing. Then Buch starts whacking at their goalie so Wilson politely reminds him of his presence on the ice. Now the refs, knowing Wilson is on the ice, should've been hovering around to grab him knowing full well what was going to happen...but they wimped out and grabbed smaller guys allowing panarin to get free shots to Wilson and if you pull the lions tail...........

Coincidentally, Crosby did the same thing to a player that same night only he smashed the guys head in to the ice THREE times and no one is calling him a goon or needing a trident....

resume the witch hunt and probably flaming me for this post
The trident 🔱 thing was clearly a joke. Have you ever tried to take a slapshot with a trident? 😄
I'll bet Doc Emrick has used that somewhere along the line. :)

Re: News and Games around the NHL

3075
Turk Sanderson wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:21 pm
BluesSK wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:11 pm
Ozzies09tc wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:44 pm Buch should've never been on the ice for Wilson to hit to ensue the panarin fiasco

Buch did a dirty hit to OV that injured him and instead of giving him a misconduct they did nothing. Then Buch starts whacking at their goalie so Wilson politely reminds him of his presence on the ice. Now the refs, knowing Wilson is on the ice, should've been hovering around to grab him knowing full well what was going to happen...but they wimped out and grabbed smaller guys allowing panarin to get free shots to Wilson and if you pull the lions tail...........

Coincidentally, Crosby did the same thing to a player that same night only he smashed the guys head in to the ice THREE times and no one is calling him a goon or needing a trident....

resume the witch hunt and probably flaming me for this post
The trident 🔱 thing was clearly a joke. Have you ever tried to take a slapshot with a trident? 😄
I'll bet Doc Emrick has used that somewhere along the line. :)

Spearheaded into the corner, the defenseman pitchfork's the puck alongside the trident and now the forward sachet's thru center ice.

Doc Emerick