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Re: Rampage Rookie D/Blues Prospect Mitch Reinke

451 by Dave's a mess
MattyIce wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:36 am
JMC-STL wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:43 am
BluesSK wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:05 amTime to get out the Petro megathread again. :)
And to think, this thread started out so hopefully as a story about a young prospect in the AHL who "set a new single-season franchise record with 37 points, the most ever by a Rampage rookie defenseman." What was his name again? :roll:
I blame Petro for this thread being derailed. If he was a true captain, we would still be talking about Reinke.
Outstanding point. Petro just doesn't get it!
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Rampage Rookie D/Blues Prospect Mitch Reinke

452 by Beatoni12
Doug Glatt wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:42 am
Beatoni12 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:37 pm I don’t think it’s the ideal situation, but depending what other moves are made, having Petro play out his last year and letting him walk might not be the worst option. Cap space is a huge commodity these days and we may be in a situation where trading Petro before end of next year will make us a worse team at the time, therefore you keep him for the year and gain the cap space afterwards.

It’s really just the reverse of trading picks / prospects for a veteran, but you’re just not adding them as opposed to losing them.

I would expect NHLTim to be fully supportive of going for it and not worrying about the future!!!
Why not trade him this offseason? You get the cap space, assets coming back and time to bring in someone else if you go prospects/picks as the return in the trade. I think I would personally go that route.
I actually don’t mind the idea of trading Petro this summer, but if / when we do move him, we’re almost assuredly a worse team the next day, simply because players like that are almost exclusively moved for younger players and prospects. And it will be very difficult to replace Petro with someone of similar salary (that is available).

It’s not ideal, but I think the idea of letting guys go to UFA isn’t as bad as it typically is made out to be.

Re: Petro mega-thread

453 by Dave's a mess
I really wonder what type of extension conversations take place. Even if Armstrong is planning on moving him this summer, you have to at least have the conversation with Petro and his agent to get an idea of what he's looking for. If he'd be willing to take a shorter deal (5 years or less) for a AAV under 10, I think you really have to consider it. I doubt that's the case, so despite my frequent defense of Petro on here, I'm more than willing to explore moving him over the summer. But as Beatoni said, you are most likely a worse team after moving Petro, though who knows, some GMs have been known to overpay for D.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Petro mega-thread

454 by Dread_Pirate_Westley
Here's a thing to keep in mind with Petro,(apologies if this has been mentioned) but there's an expansion team coming. If the protection rules are the same as for Vegas(3 D) and you have Petro re-signed, you're pretty much guaranteeing that you're going to give away Dunn or Edmundson for free at that point, assuming you protect Petro, Parayko, and one of those two. I don't know how much of a factor that will play, but it's something to keep in mind as well.
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Re: Petro mega-thread

455 by Beatoni12
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:58 am I really wonder what type of extension conversations take place. Even if Armstrong is planning on moving him this summer, you have to at least have the conversation with Petro and his agent to get an idea of what he's looking for. If he'd be willing to take a shorter deal (5 years or less) for a AAV under 10, I think you really have to consider it. I doubt that's the case, so despite my frequent defense of Petro on here, I'm more than willing to explore moving him over the summer. But as Beatoni said, you are most likely a worse team after moving Petro, though who knows, some GMs have been known to overpay for D.
I’m a Petro fan, but I wouldn’t agree to pay him anything over $7.5M. Slightly higher than current deal. You can’t commit $9M to the guy, IMO.

Re: Petro mega-thread

456 by Dave's a mess
Beatoni12 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:39 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:58 am I really wonder what type of extension conversations take place. Even if Armstrong is planning on moving him this summer, you have to at least have the conversation with Petro and his agent to get an idea of what he's looking for. If he'd be willing to take a shorter deal (5 years or less) for a AAV under 10, I think you really have to consider it. I doubt that's the case, so despite my frequent defense of Petro on here, I'm more than willing to explore moving him over the summer. But as Beatoni said, you are most likely a worse team after moving Petro, though who knows, some GMs have been known to overpay for D.
I’m a Petro fan, but I wouldn’t agree to pay him anything over $7.5M. Slightly higher than current deal. You can’t commit $9M to the guy, IMO.
If Doughty is getting $11M starting next year there's no way Petro's market it $7.5. It's not 11, but it's somwehere between 8-10.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Petro mega-thread

457 by NHLTIM
Petro minimum is going to be 8/64.....that's still a lot of jack. you know him and his agent are looking for $9.5 - $10mil per too and as much as I love to rip on Petro....they can probably justify that.
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Re: Petro mega-thread

458 by barnburner
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:43 am
Beatoni12 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:39 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:58 am I really wonder what type of extension conversations take place. Even if Armstrong is planning on moving him this summer, you have to at least have the conversation with Petro and his agent to get an idea of what he's looking for. If he'd be willing to take a shorter deal (5 years or less) for a AAV under 10, I think you really have to consider it. I doubt that's the case, so despite my frequent defense of Petro on here, I'm more than willing to explore moving him over the summer. But as Beatoni said, you are most likely a worse team after moving Petro, though who knows, some GMs have been known to overpay for D.
I’m a Petro fan, but I wouldn’t agree to pay him anything over $7.5M. Slightly higher than current deal. You can’t commit $9M to the guy, IMO.
If Doughty is getting $11M starting next year there's no way Petro's market it $7.5. It's not 11, but it's somwehere between 8-10.
You wouldn't pay Doughty $3.5 more than Petro? I would. In a minute. Difference between a true #1 dman and a second pairing defensman.

Re: Petro mega-thread

459 by Dave's a mess
barnburner wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:18 pm
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:43 am
Beatoni12 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:39 am

I’m a Petro fan, but I wouldn’t agree to pay him anything over $7.5M. Slightly higher than current deal. You can’t commit $9M to the guy, IMO.
If Doughty is getting $11M starting next year there's no way Petro's market it $7.5. It's not 11, but it's somwehere between 8-10.
You wouldn't pay Doughty $3.5 more than Petro? I would. In a minute. Difference between a true #1 dman and a second pairing defensman.
No, I wouldn't pay doughty 30% more than Petro. Petro is going to make way more than 7.5. Like him or hate him he's 100% worth more than that, and every GM in the league would take him for 7.5. I really don't know what the term/AAV will be, but I'd be shocked if it were anything less than 8.5, particularly as the cap continues to increase. Again I'm not saying extending him is the way to go, but you have to see what he's looking for at least.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Rampage Rookie D/Blues Prospect Mitch Reinke

460 by Doug Glatt
Beatoni12 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:42 am
Doug Glatt wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:42 am
Beatoni12 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:37 pm I don’t think it’s the ideal situation, but depending what other moves are made, having Petro play out his last year and letting him walk might not be the worst option. Cap space is a huge commodity these days and we may be in a situation where trading Petro before end of next year will make us a worse team at the time, therefore you keep him for the year and gain the cap space afterwards.

It’s really just the reverse of trading picks / prospects for a veteran, but you’re just not adding them as opposed to losing them.

I would expect NHLTim to be fully supportive of going for it and not worrying about the future!!!
Why not trade him this offseason? You get the cap space, assets coming back and time to bring in someone else if you go prospects/picks as the return in the trade. I think I would personally go that route.
I actually don’t mind the idea of trading Petro this summer, but if / when we do move him, we’re almost assuredly a worse team the next day, simply because players like that are almost exclusively moved for younger players and prospects. And it will be very difficult to replace Petro with someone of similar salary (that is available).

It’s not ideal, but I think the idea of letting guys go to UFA isn’t as bad as it typically is made out to be.
Letting him walk as a UFA after next season wouldn't be crippling, but I would see it as a missed opportunity.

Petro has value around the league. I'd look to move him to the East during the offseason to maximize on Petro as an asset. Then next season you promote Parayko as Petro's replacement. So in theory you just need to bring in a top 4 replacement over the offseason, rather than a top pairing FA. I'm not sure what FA defensemen will be out there, but I have to think there is at least one quality top 4 guy the Blues can bring in via FA.

Re: Petro mega-thread

462 by RAFritchey
Over the last 4 seasons (Including this one so far, as bad as it's been) Pietrangelo is in the top-20 or so of all defensemen in just about any category you could name: Points, points per game, shots, ice time, goals, goals per game, PP goals, game winning goals, etc. He plays significant time in every situation, usually against the opposition's top players, and he's only 29. As of next year, His cap hit will be 18th among all currently signed defensemen, which is pretty much exactly in line with his overall performance i.e. somewhere between 15-20 league wide among defensemen. He's not going to get a top-10 salary, but he's probably going to be staying around 15th-20th over the course of his next contract.

Anyone who thinks we'd be better off with Dion Phaneuf instead for that kind of money desperately needs a boot to the head.

Re: Petro mega-thread

463 by Doug Glatt
RAFritchey wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:18 pm Over the last 4 seasons (Including this one so far, as bad as it's been) Pietrangelo is in the top-20 or so of all defensemen in just about any category you could name: Points, points per game, shots, ice time, goals, goals per game, PP goals, game winning goals, etc. He plays significant time in every situation, usually against the opposition's top players, and he's only 29. As of next year, His cap hit will be 18th among all currently signed defensemen, which is pretty much exactly in line with his overall performance i.e. somewhere between 15-20 league wide among defensemen. He's not going to get a top-10 salary, but he's probably going to be staying around 15th-20th over the course of his next contract.

Anyone who thinks we'd be better off with Dion Phaneuf instead for that kind of money desperately needs a boot to the head.
I honestly forgot Phaneuf was even still in the league until the Blues recently played LA.

Re: Petro mega-thread

464 by RAFritchey
Doug Glatt wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:26 pm
RAFritchey wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:18 pm Over the last 4 seasons (Including this one so far, as bad as it's been) Pietrangelo is in the top-20 or so of all defensemen in just about any category you could name: Points, points per game, shots, ice time, goals, goals per game, PP goals, game winning goals, etc. He plays significant time in every situation, usually against the opposition's top players, and he's only 29. As of next year, His cap hit will be 18th among all currently signed defensemen, which is pretty much exactly in line with his overall performance i.e. somewhere between 15-20 league wide among defensemen. He's not going to get a top-10 salary, but he's probably going to be staying around 15th-20th over the course of his next contract.

Anyone who thinks we'd be better off with Dion Phaneuf instead for that kind of money desperately needs a boot to the head.
I honestly forgot Phaneuf was even still in the league until the Blues recently played LA.
LA would probably like to forget about him, too. He's still owed like $12 mil over the next two seasons (Though, IIRC, Ottawa was on the hook for some of that I thought?)

Re: Petro mega-thread

465 by bradleygt89
RAFritchey wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:18 pm Over the last 4 seasons (Including this one so far, as bad as it's been) Pietrangelo is in the top-20 or so of all defensemen in just about any category you could name: Points, points per game, shots, ice time, goals, goals per game, PP goals, game winning goals, etc. He plays significant time in every situation, usually against the opposition's top players, and he's only 29. As of next year, His cap hit will be 18th among all currently signed defensemen, which is pretty much exactly in line with his overall performance i.e. somewhere between 15-20 league wide among defensemen. He's not going to get a top-10 salary, but he's probably going to be staying around 15th-20th over the course of his next contract.

Anyone who thinks we'd be better off with Dion Phaneuf instead for that kind of money desperately needs a boot to the head.
Outside of a few posters, or maybe just one ;), I think most of us DO value Petro as a top pairing D-man. It is his leadership, and as I mentioned earlier, his seemingly lack of involvement with the community, unenthusiastic and very sporadic interviews, and from the few times I've seen the potential for fan interactions, he has missed those and just ignored the fans.

IMHO, the team and Petro would be better off moving away from each other, AND if we can get a young stud dman like a Cernak back in a trade, do it. We may be weaker in backline skill, but I think team chemistry and leadership would automatically improve. And as we see every year from teams like Edmonton, it takes a LOT more than just skill to win in the NHL. /
"Do Only Good Everyday"

Re: Petro mega-thread

466 by NHLTIM
bradleygt89 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:10 pm Petro, Steen, and a 4th to Tampa Bay for Cernek, Tyler Johnson, and a 2nd. There's your trade :)
I'm thinking Petro and a forward to Detroit for Athanasiou and Dekeyser
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Re: Petro mega-thread

467 by NHLTIM
RAFritchey wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:18 pm Over the last 4 seasons (Including this one so far, as bad as it's been) Pietrangelo is in the top-20 or so of all defensemen in just about any category you could name: Points, points per game, shots, ice time, goals, goals per game, PP goals, game winning goals, etc. He plays significant time in every situation, usually against the opposition's top players, and he's only 29. As of next year, His cap hit will be 18th among all currently signed defensemen, which is pretty much exactly in line with his overall performance i.e. somewhere between 15-20 league wide among defensemen. He's not going to get a top-10 salary, but he's probably going to be staying around 15th-20th over the course of his next contract.

Anyone who thinks we'd be better off with Dion Phaneuf instead for that kind of money desperately needs a boot to the head.
Don't care what Petro has done.......the fact is that he's going to start regressing and he's going to be locked up for a long time....unless of course he's taking a significant home town discount at least in terms of contract length. I just don't see it though. Any time a team feels it can't move on from a player...that's a fail on the organization.
Official "Bitch Ass" Fan and proud of it"

"Suck a dick Johansen"

"Official Sponsor of the Legend....Jeremy Roenick"

Re: Petro mega-thread

468 by Beatoni12
barnburner wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:18 pm
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:43 am
Beatoni12 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:39 am

I’m a Petro fan, but I wouldn’t agree to pay him anything over $7.5M. Slightly higher than current deal. You can’t commit $9M to the guy, IMO.
If Doughty is getting $11M starting next year there's no way Petro's market it $7.5. It's not 11, but it's somwehere between 8-10.
You wouldn't pay Doughty $3.5 more than Petro? I would. In a minute. Difference between a true #1 dman and a second pairing defensman.
That’s doughty contract is going to be horrible in short order. He’s still a great d, but he’s regressed from what he was and I think his game will not translate well as he ages. His skating style is much less suited to maintain a high level compared to Petro. And 8 year deal for anyone that’s 29 or 30 is generally a bad idea.

Re: Petro mega-thread

469 by MattyIce
NHLTIM wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:35 pm
bradleygt89 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:10 pm Petro, Steen, and a 4th to Tampa Bay for Cernek, Tyler Johnson, and a 2nd. There's your trade :)
I'm thinking Petro and a forward to Detroit for Athanasiou and Dekeyser
Is Petro's NTC a full NTC or is it limited to a list of teams? That is the real road block
KA-KAW!

Re: Petro mega-thread

470 by barnburner
Beatoni12 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:54 pm
barnburner wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:18 pm
Dave's a mess wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:43 am

If Doughty is getting $11M starting next year there's no way Petro's market it $7.5. It's not 11, but it's somwehere between 8-10.
You wouldn't pay Doughty $3.5 more than Petro? I would. In a minute. Difference between a true #1 dman and a second pairing defensman.
That’s doughty contract is going to be horrible in short order. He’s still a great d, but he’s regressed from what he was and I think his game will not translate well as he ages. His skating style is much less suited to maintain a high level compared to Petro. And 8 year deal for anyone that’s 29 or 30 is generally a bad idea.
Oh, I agree that an 8 year contract, for either player, is a bad idea.

Re: Petro mega-thread

471 by Ozzies09tc
Petro may be worth doughty money...

Not only do you get a #1 Dman tops 20 in the leage with soon to be 32 teams BUT he also doubles as a couch when the opponents get tired
Now now, the Canadian Government has apologized for Bryan Adams on SEVERAL occasions!

Re: Petro mega-thread

474 by ratonmono
If they're not going to keep Petro longterm they need to knock the trade for him out of the park. Trading the best player in a deal for 2-3 lesser pieces is generally not the way you build a winner and whoever they get in return is almost certainly not going to be as good as Petro.
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