The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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There just is not enough cash and ice time on the RHD side for all three of Shatty Petro and CP.

Shatty needs a raise, and Petro makes top flight dollars. Thing is, Shatty gets points AND SCORES!!! Shatty would be less expensive to re-sign IMO. And Colton is making his entry level contract. Lots of people have been saying trade Shatty, I'm saying trade Petro. He's the one, plus some pieces that will get the Blues another high value center. Taylor Hall maybe or...

I would not be upset at all with

Shatty
Parayko
Bortuzzo

in 2016 2017

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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I like Petro more than some. I think he is a magician in the defensive zone, and he could put things together offensively. That said, Shatty is just something some teams don't have. I think we need him more than Petro. Sure, Petro plays against the best teams, but I think Shatty is under-rated defensively and is just too dynamic offensively to lose.

Petro + for stud center sounds like a mega win for us. If we needed to shed salary, I'd look at flipping Stastny or Backes. Even with no LD via trade.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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I have to disagree. Not many players in the league of petro's caliber and none that I can think of in his salary range. For a number one defenseman, which he is, playing almost 30 minutes a night against the best players in the league for what he makes is a great deal. I like Shatty a lot and like the offense he is able to generate through his transition and skating ability but defensively he is not close to petro. I think Shatty would get exposed pretty badly if he assumed petro's role. I do agree that we will likely not be able to keep both but I think if we move petro we will be kicking ourselves a year down the road. Though I also would not mind another offensive stud....

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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Shatty is going to cost WAY more than the 6.5M that Petro makes, and I don't see the Blues ponying that up for a guy who (on the Blues) plays on the 2nd pairing. This isn't a situation like most of the younger defenseman who have signed deals recently--Shatty will be a UFA. He's going to get paid. Probably at least 8M a year I would guess, unless he ends up taking a discount to stay here or go somewhere he really wants to go. You figure Suter got 7.5M a year or so a couple of years ago as a UFA and Shatty will probably have close to or better numbers as Suter did when he went UFA.

I don't want to lose Shattenkirk, but considering we already have a top pairing right handed defenseman locked up long term for less than what Shatty is going to command, as well as some pretty good depth on the right side...along with how much you could get if you dealt him, I'll be surprised if he's with us after next summer. JMO. I also think the fact they know Petro can play against other teams top players makes it "safer" for the Blues to choose to keep Petro over Shatty, since its not something he's done to this point in his career.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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A smattering of thought...

1) Petro makes great plays, but he still makes too many bad plays. He coughs it up when there is persistent forechecking. He also can't seem to find shooting lanes consistently (unlike Parayko, who has been brilliant in that area). Don't get me wrong, he's a very good defenseman, but not the perennial Norris finalist that I hoped he could be.

2) I wish we could have seen a full season from Shatty last year. I can't tell whether he's peaking or plateauing. If it's that latter, and Parayko continues on his course, keeping Shatty and moving Petro doesn't sound all that crazy.

3) Borts is everything you want in a third-pairing d-man, but he would be a whipping boy if overexposed. Keep his minutes down, and I love what he brings to the table.

4) What happened to Lindbohm? I thought he looked great last year.

5) Will Schmaltz be ready next year?

6) Is it too late to get Jonas Junland back into the mix? I'm sure he's still not good enough to hack it in the NHL, but he's rocking a bad-ass roadkill-looking beard that would look spectacular above the Bluenote. Google it. It's outstanding.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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Yes on Junland's beard, and yes it would be optimal to just trade J-Bo, but the problem is A.-I doubt we would get much with his contract and B.-Bouwmeester is and LHD. I've said before that I would rather trade Shatty, not because I don't like him but because I feel Pietrangelo is the better Defensive guy. When it comes to your number one defenseman, I'd rather take a defensive guy who can chip in offensively than vice-versa. However Both Petro and Shatty are high end talents...not to mention you never know what Parayko can become.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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Oates2Hullie450 wrote:Yes on Junland's beard, and yes it would be optimal to just trade J-Bo, but the problem is A.-I doubt we would get much with his contract and B.-Bouwmeester is and LHD. I've said before that I would rather trade Shatty, not because I don't like him but because I feel Pietrangelo is the better Defensive guy. When it comes to your number one defenseman, I'd rather take a defensive guy who can chip in offensively than vice-versa. However Both Petro and Shatty are high end talents...not to mention you never know what Parayko can become.
Jaybo is already 31 yrs old, and is not physical. When he loses a step it's not gonna be good.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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I'm finding it amazing how undervalued Petro is becoming with some Blues fans. He's not super flashy in the O zone anymore but the entire team runs through him. He's one of the best transitional D in the world. He's only missed something like 3 games his entire career so perhaps him always being there has resulting in people not realizing just what a huge hole would be created if here were gone.

IMO, the one player that would hurt the Blues to lose the most would be Petro. Yes, even over Tarasenko...although it'd be close. Petro plays half of every game (most icetime in the entire league). Filling that void and his D and transitional work would be near impossible. His transitional work prevents many goals and also leads to a lot of Blues offense (whether Petro ends up getting an assist out of it or not, he's the leader on the team in getting the puck moving in the direction of the opposition's net). He's irreplaceable...unless he's traded for a comparable d-man...but why? Not happening.

Shatty is a good offensive d-man but he can't really even hold Petro's jock in the other aspects of the game. He's good transitionally but Petro is phenomenal in transitions.

That said, I try to find a way to keep all 3 righties and find a way to pay Shatty. He is also very valuable, especially on the PP. He's easier to replace than Petro but still quite valuable and quite hard to replace.

And if any of these guys are traded it better not be for a winger. We already have at least 3 1st pairing caliber wingers in Tarasenko, Schwartz and Steen. And Fabbri could possibly reach that tier in time as well. What the Blues could use is a legit top line center. If Shatty can return that, great. If not, find a way to re-sign Shatty as IMO it wouldn't be worth trading him for another lower tier #1C. We don't need one of those as we already have one in Stastny.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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STL fan in IA wrote:I'm finding it amazing how undervalued Petro is becoming with some Blues fans. He's not super flashy in the O zone anymore but the entire team runs through him. He's one of the best transitional D in the world. He's only missed something like 3 games his entire career so perhaps him always being there has resulting in people not realizing just what a huge hole would be created if here were gone.

IMO, the one player that would hurt the Blues to lose the most would be Petro. Yes, even over Tarasenko...although it'd be close. Petro plays half of every game (most icetime in the entire league). Filling that void and his D and transitional work would be near impossible. His transitional work prevents many goals and also leads to a lot of Blues offense (whether Petro ends up getting an assist out of it or not, he's the leader on the team in getting the puck moving in the direction of the opposition's net). He's irreplaceable...unless he's traded for a comparable d-man...but why? Not happening.

Shatty is a good offensive d-man but he can't really even hold Petro's jock in the other aspects of the game. He's good transitionally but Petro is phenomenal in transitions.

That said, I try to find a way to keep all 3 righties and find a way to pay Shatty. He is also very valuable, especially on the PP. He's easier to replace than Petro but still quite valuable and quite hard to replace.

PASS THE TURKEY!

And if any of these guys are traded it better not be for a winger. We already have at least 3 1st pairing caliber wingers in Tarasenko, Schwartz and Steen. And Fabbri could possibly reach that tier in time as well. What the Blues could use is a legit top line center. If Shatty can return that, great. If not, find a way to re-sign Shatty as IMO it wouldn't be worth trading him for another lower tier #1C. We don't need one of those as we already have one in Stastny.
I'm finding it amazing how OVER-valued Petro is. His contract is good relative to his skill set, but the idea that he is the glue holding that team together is a farce. His TOI could VERY WELL be compensated for and the team might actually benefit from a fresher set of legs out there more often. I really dislike the discussion about keeping Petro at all costs including not signing Shattenkirk. Especially after we saw what happened to the power play when Shattenkirk was out. Shatty could handle some of the defensive load if Petro was gone tomorrow. Petro has PROVEN he can't step up to help this team on the other end of the ice.

PASS THE TURKEY

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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Notebly Blue wrote:
STL fan in IA wrote:I'm finding it amazing how undervalued Petro is becoming with some Blues fans. He's not super flashy in the O zone anymore but the entire team runs through him. He's one of the best transitional D in the world. He's only missed something like 3 games his entire career so perhaps him always being there has resulting in people not realizing just what a huge hole would be created if here were gone.

IMO, the one player that would hurt the Blues to lose the most would be Petro. Yes, even over Tarasenko...although it'd be close. Petro plays half of every game (most icetime in the entire league). Filling that void and his D and transitional work would be near impossible. His transitional work prevents many goals and also leads to a lot of Blues offense (whether Petro ends up getting an assist out of it or not, he's the leader on the team in getting the puck moving in the direction of the opposition's net). He's irreplaceable...unless he's traded for a comparable d-man...but why? Not happening.

Shatty is a good offensive d-man but he can't really even hold Petro's jock in the other aspects of the game. He's good transitionally but Petro is phenomenal in transitions.

That said, I try to find a way to keep all 3 righties and find a way to pay Shatty. He is also very valuable, especially on the PP. He's easier to replace than Petro but still quite valuable and quite hard to replace.

PASS THE TURKEY!

And if any of these guys are traded it better not be for a winger. We already have at least 3 1st pairing caliber wingers in Tarasenko, Schwartz and Steen. And Fabbri could possibly reach that tier in time as well. What the Blues could use is a legit top line center. If Shatty can return that, great. If not, find a way to re-sign Shatty as IMO it wouldn't be worth trading him for another lower tier #1C. We don't need one of those as we already have one in Stastny.
I'm finding it amazing how OVER-valued Petro is. His contract is good relative to his skill set, but the idea that he is the glue holding that team together is a farce. His TOI could VERY WELL be compensated for and the team might actually benefit from a fresher set of legs out there more often. I really dislike the discussion about keeping Petro at all costs including not signing Shattenkirk. Especially after we saw what happened to the power play when Shattenkirk was out. Shatty could handle some of the defensive load if Petro was gone tomorrow. Petro has PROVEN he can't step up to help this team on the other end of the ice.

PASS THE TURKEY
Can't say I see how petro is over valued. As already mentioned we have never seen the Blues without petro long term to give us an accurate idea of what our defense and transition would look like without him. Saying the minutes petro eats up could be replaced by others rather easily is simply not true. Shatty is nowhere near the level of petro defensively. Shatty does not play against other teams top lines 30 minutes a game like petro does and if he did the flaws in his defensive game would be much more apparent. I also do not understand where the idea that petro does not produce offensively comes from. He has 227 points in 408 games giving .56 points per game average and has 12 points in 26 playoff games giving him .46 point per game average in the playoffs. I will take that any day for a defenseman who is as good as petro is defensively.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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Notebly Blue wrote:
STL fan in IA wrote:I'm finding it amazing how undervalued Petro is becoming with some Blues fans. He's not super flashy in the O zone anymore but the entire team runs through him. He's one of the best transitional D in the world. He's only missed something like 3 games his entire career so perhaps him always being there has resulting in people not realizing just what a huge hole would be created if here were gone.

IMO, the one player that would hurt the Blues to lose the most would be Petro. Yes, even over Tarasenko...although it'd be close. Petro plays half of every game (most icetime in the entire league). Filling that void and his D and transitional work would be near impossible. His transitional work prevents many goals and also leads to a lot of Blues offense (whether Petro ends up getting an assist out of it or not, he's the leader on the team in getting the puck moving in the direction of the opposition's net). He's irreplaceable...unless he's traded for a comparable d-man...but why? Not happening.

Shatty is a good offensive d-man but he can't really even hold Petro's jock in the other aspects of the game. He's good transitionally but Petro is phenomenal in transitions.

That said, I try to find a way to keep all 3 righties and find a way to pay Shatty. He is also very valuable, especially on the PP. He's easier to replace than Petro but still quite valuable and quite hard to replace.

PASS THE TURKEY!

And if any of these guys are traded it better not be for a winger. We already have at least 3 1st pairing caliber wingers in Tarasenko, Schwartz and Steen. And Fabbri could possibly reach that tier in time as well. What the Blues could use is a legit top line center. If Shatty can return that, great. If not, find a way to re-sign Shatty as IMO it wouldn't be worth trading him for another lower tier #1C. We don't need one of those as we already have one in Stastny.
I'm finding it amazing how OVER-valued Petro is. His contract is good relative to his skill set, but the idea that he is the glue holding that team together is a farce. His TOI could VERY WELL be compensated for and the team might actually benefit from a fresher set of legs out there more often. I really dislike the discussion about keeping Petro at all costs including not signing Shattenkirk. Especially after we saw what happened to the power play when Shattenkirk was out. Shatty could handle some of the defensive load if Petro was gone tomorrow. Petro has PROVEN he can't step up to help this team on the other end of the ice.

PASS THE TURKEY
Well then, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I won't wish an injiry upon him just so it would open others eyes but I think if Petro missed time like Shatty has recently, folks would see just how valuable he is...and I think it's ludicrous to think that his 27-30 min/night could "easily" be replaced by other d-men that are defensively inferior to him.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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I mentioned this over on HF last night, but what about finding a trade partner for Shatty who has the left-handed equivalent of Shatty? It wouldn't really be just shuffling deck chairs, as handedness matters to an awful lot of people in the NHL. OEL is an example, though I doubt that is something the Coyotes would consider. Is there a left-handed equivalent of Shatty out there in the NHL playing for a team that has the opposite problem as we do, too many quality LHD to play in the Top 4?

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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MissouriMook wrote:I mentioned this over on HF last night, but what about finding a trade partner for Shatty who has the left-handed equivalent of Shatty? It wouldn't really be just shuffling deck chairs, as handedness matters to an awful lot of people in the NHL. OEL is an example, though I doubt that is something the Coyotes would consider. Is there a left-handed equivalent of Shatty out there in the NHL playing for a team that has the opposite problem as we do, too many quality LHD to play in the Top 4?
Move Petro to the left side. When he shoots from the left side, he hits the net. :)

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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Turk Sanderson wrote:
MissouriMook wrote:I mentioned this over on HF last night, but what about finding a trade partner for Shatty who has the left-handed equivalent of Shatty? It wouldn't really be just shuffling deck chairs, as handedness matters to an awful lot of people in the NHL. OEL is an example, though I doubt that is something the Coyotes would consider. Is there a left-handed equivalent of Shatty out there in the NHL playing for a team that has the opposite problem as we do, too many quality LHD to play in the Top 4?
Move Petro to the left side. When he shoots from the left side, he hits the net. :)
I did a little research (and I do mean "a little") after I posted this and two interesting names bubbled to the surface - Morgan Rielly and TJ Brodie. The Leafs probably aren't at all interested in moving Rielly, but their top 3 D (Rielly, Phaneuf and Gardiner) are all lefties. Brodie will likely end up being the #1 in Calgary, but Gio-Shatty would make a nice top pairing and they would still have Russell-Hamilton for the 2nd pairing.

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Ozzies09tc wrote:How is shatty going to get "8.5" or more a yr when he's "not as good as petro" making 6.5?

Excuse my ignorance, but i'm confused
For a couple reasons. Petro signed his contract as an RFA limiting his options. He also signed his contract before some of the large deals that have been recently signed by top defenseman in the league. On the other hand Shatty will be a UFA and have the ability to go to the open market or at least use it as a bargaining chip which will inflate his cost. Then factor in the contracts defenseman of Shatty's caliber have signed after petro's contract and you have some more chips to bargin with again inflating his price. I don't know what it will cost to sign him but I do know if he goes to the open market he will be highly sought after and I could see a team offering him 7.5-9 million a year.

Re: The Trade that has to happen (next summer)

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1. Shatty will not be getting paid more than Petro. We will lose him to UFA before that happens.

You guys are missing my point, Shatty and Parayko can can be the guys for less money. Petro is probably the better trade chip since he is signed long term. Asset management.

THIS IS ALL COLTON PARAYKO'S FAULT!!!

The other solution is to sign and trade Shatty for something not as good as RNH.

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TR-USA wrote:
Ozzies09tc wrote:How is shatty going to get "8.5" or more a yr when he's "not as good as petro" making 6.5?

Excuse my ignorance, but i'm confused
For a couple reasons. Petro signed his contract as an RFA limiting his options. He also signed his contract before some of the large deals that have been recently signed by top defenseman in the league. On the other hand Shatty will be a UFA and have the ability to go to the open market or at least use it as a bargaining chip which will inflate his cost. Then factor in the contracts defenseman of Shatty's caliber have signed after petro's contract and you have some more chips to bargin
with again inflating his price. I don't know what it will cost to sign him but I do know if he goes to the open market he will be highly sought after and I could see a team offering him 7.5-9 million a year.
Aaahhhhhh i forgot about the ufa vs rfa contractual basis.

Thanks for clarifying