BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:41 pm Hottest team in league just got diffused by its own GM. Army is fuckn horrible.

Couldn't get it done with those great Hitch teams, what made me think he'd do something constructive here.

I don't understand the anger. Conventional wisdom was that the Blues do little to nothing today, which is what happened. At the prices the available pieces went for, I'm glad he stood pat.

RAFritchey wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:35 pm

NHLTIM wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:29 pm I would have rather kept the the 6th rounder and just let Butler fill that role

Yeah, but if Gunnar's not likely to come back, and Bortz seems to get injured every 10 games or so (I think he's overdue already), we'd have Butler in our top-6, and, if anyone else got injured as the playoffs progressed, then what? Schmaltz?

IMHO, a 6th round pick is probably worth an NHL-level defenseman, even as an 'insurance policy.'

Reinke

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:41 pm Hottest team in league just got diffused by its own GM. Army is fuckn horrible.

Couldn't get it done with those great Hitch teams, what made me think he'd do something constructive here.

The only deal I feel bad about missing on when looking at the prices is Wayne SimmonDs. The rest either wouldn’t do much or the Blues couldn’t realistically match.

Wow...we could have gotten Beaulieu for a 6th round pick instead of Del Zotto.

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:44 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:41 pm Hottest team in league just got diffused by its own GM. Army is fuckn horrible.

Couldn't get it done with those great Hitch teams, what made me think he'd do something constructive here.

I don't understand the anger. Conventional wisdom was that the Blues do little to nothing today, which is what happened. At the prices the available pieces went for, I'm glad he stood pat.

Simmonds for Hartman and a 4th? The Blues couldn't beat that? That's the problem. Doug had his mind made up he wasn't going to do anything so mission accomplished. Like I said, if there's a will, there's a way. Good luck to the Blues tomorrow night when Nashville comes to town.
Vets like Tank and Schwartz want to see an effort made toward the common goal which is the Cup............. Just bad. Just real bad.

Would have liked to seen us top that deal for Simmonds maybe but otherwise nothing was moving the needle interest wise for me. Just glad Armstrong didn't Rutherford up this team.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:46 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:41 pm Hottest team in league just got diffused by its own GM. Army is fuckn horrible.

Couldn't get it done with those great Hitch teams, what made me think he'd do something constructive here.

The only deal I feel bad about missing on when looking at the prices is Wayne SimmonDs. The rest either wouldn’t do much or the Blues couldn’t realistically match.

We didn't push hard enough. Like I said earlier, the closer it gets to 2pm, those 2nd rd and 3rd rd picks gain more value. Teams that wanted to unload would be willing takers. Hence the Simmons deal. I'm sure there's other possibilities out there but if your GM has his mind made up, that's all she wrote.

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:49 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:44 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:41 pm Hottest team in league just got diffused by its own GM. Army is fuckn horrible.

Couldn't get it done with those great Hitch teams, what made me think he'd do something constructive here.

I don't understand the anger. Conventional wisdom was that the Blues do little to nothing today, which is what happened. At the prices the available pieces went for, I'm glad he stood pat.

Simmonds for Hartman and a 4th? The Blues couldn't beat that? That's the problem. Doug had his mind made up he wasn't going to do anything so mission accomplished. Like I said, if there's a will, there's a way. Good luck to the Blues tomorrow night when Nashville comes to town.
Vets like Tank and Schwartz want to see an effort made toward the common goal which is the Cup............. Just bad. Just real bad.

What's the package that's better than Hartman and a 4th that's still palatable?

Honestly I’d rather have Hartman than Simmonds. Simmonds has already started declining and Hartman is young and a pretty good player. Simmonds only has 7 more points than Hartman this year, obviously playing in more offensive situations that Hartman does too. Unpopular opinion I suppose but I hardly see Hartman and a fourth as a deal thats easy to match. Who is our Hartman equivalent?

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:59 pm Honestly I’d rather have Hartman than Simmonds. Simmonds has already started declining and Hartman is young and a pretty good player. Simmonds only has 7 more points than Hartman this year, obviously playing in more offensive situations that Hartman does too. Unpopular opinion I suppose but I hardly see Hartman and a fourth as a deal thats easy to match. Who is our Hartman equivalent?

Sunny D or Barbashev. And no way in hell would I have traded them for a month of Simmonds. If they were willing to take Sanford then sure. Again the deadline frenzy gets everyone worked up but ultimately these rentals are just minor moves that don't move the needle for me. You build your team in the offseason and Armstrong already spent his ammo the past two summers on O'Reilly, Schenn, and Bozak.

Yeah....I don't know that the Preds won that Simmonds trade but then again, Ryan Hartman is one of my all time favorite junior players.

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:58 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:49 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:44 pm

I don't understand the anger. Conventional wisdom was that the Blues do little to nothing today, which is what happened. At the prices the available pieces went for, I'm glad he stood pat.

Simmonds for Hartman and a 4th? The Blues couldn't beat that? That's the problem. Doug had his mind made up he wasn't going to do anything so mission accomplished. Like I said, if there's a will, there's a way. Good luck to the Blues tomorrow night when Nashville comes to town.
Vets like Tank and Schwartz want to see an effort made toward the common goal which is the Cup............. Just bad. Just real bad.

What's the package that's better than Hartman and a 4th that's still palatable?

Anything. How bout a 3rd rounder and a couple players like Barbie. Or a 2nd rounder and a couple players. It could of been done. I'm not going to cut Army any slack here. The guy said from the beginning he had his focus on a hockey trade only. He said that on TSN recently too. Whatever. It's Doug Armstrong. I'm not cutting him a break here. The guy didn't do what needed to be done, and that is to improve his teams chances in the playoffs. It's a hot team riding the wave with a new coach and a new goalie. If he wants to end the ride then so be it. I mean the guy had his mind on Del Fuckn Zotto. Please. Ridiculous.

Simmonds has taken a beating in his career. He's got very few miles left.
I saw on Twitter he has 5 goals in 30 career playoff games, & none in his last 12.

Hell, Maroon has 13 in 47gms. He'd have helped some MAYBE, but not at a great expense

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:12 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:58 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:49 pm

Simmonds for Hartman and a 4th? The Blues couldn't beat that? That's the problem. Doug had his mind made up he wasn't going to do anything so mission accomplished. Like I said, if there's a will, there's a way. Good luck to the Blues tomorrow night when Nashville comes to town.
Vets like Tank and Schwartz want to see an effort made toward the common goal which is the Cup............. Just bad. Just real bad.

What's the package that's better than Hartman and a 4th that's still palatable?

Anything. How bout a 3rd rounder and a couple players like Barbie. Or a 2nd rounder and a couple players. It could of been done. I'm not going to cut Army any slack here. The guy said from the beginning he had his focus on a hockey trade only. He said that on TSN recently too. Whatever. It's Doug Armstrong. I'm not cutting him a break here. The guy didn't do what needed to be done, and that is to improve his teams chances in the playoffs. It's a hot team riding the wave with a new coach and a new goalie. If he wants to end the ride then so be it. I mean the guy had his mind on Del Fuckn Zotto. Please. Ridiculous.

It's 2019 Simmonds though. I like him but this isn't 2015 anymore. He doesn't want to end the ride. And moving Barbashev plus picks for Simmonds would have been a bad trade.
If anything I am happy Armstrong didn't give up anything for marginal trades. Then again I am generally completely opposed to rental trades anyway and always have been. Hated bringing in Miller in 14. Hated wasting picks on Leopold. Hell I hated trading Van Ryn for Val Bure back in the day. The only deadline deal I've liked for us in the past was Bouwmeester and that's because we knew we could get him signed. If that kind of deal had been out there and we missed it, then I would be pissed.

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:44 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:41 pm Hottest team in league just got diffused by its own GM. Army is fuckn horrible.

Couldn't get it done with those great Hitch teams, what made me think he'd do something constructive here.

I don't understand the anger. Conventional wisdom was that the Blues do little to nothing today, which is what happened. At the prices the available pieces went for, I'm glad he stood pat.

Agreed.....the offseason moves, plus the two in season trades for depth dmen. I'm fine with it.

Of course we will all be regretting this tomorrow night when Simmonds comes out and opens a can of whoop ass on us!!!

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:12 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:58 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:49 pm

Simmonds for Hartman and a 4th? The Blues couldn't beat that? That's the problem. Doug had his mind made up he wasn't going to do anything so mission accomplished. Like I said, if there's a will, there's a way. Good luck to the Blues tomorrow night when Nashville comes to town.
Vets like Tank and Schwartz want to see an effort made toward the common goal which is the Cup............. Just bad. Just real bad.

What's the package that's better than Hartman and a 4th that's still palatable?

Anything. How bout a 3rd rounder and a couple players like Barbie. Or a 2nd rounder and a couple players. It could of been done. I'm not going to cut Army any slack here. The guy said from the beginning he had his focus on a hockey trade only. He said that on TSN recently too. Whatever. It's Doug Armstrong. I'm not cutting him a break here. The guy didn't do what needed to be done, and that is to improve his teams chances in the playoffs. It's a hot team riding the wave with a new coach and a new goalie. If he wants to end the ride then so be it. I mean the guy had his mind on Del Fuckn Zotto. Please. Ridiculous.

Honestly, I think it says they know Perron & Schenn are back in the near future, & they're both having better years than Simmonds or Johansson or most of the other players traded today.

Philly obviously wanted a young kamikaze-type who has a lil scoring to replace Simmonds. Who is that on the Blues? The Blues don't have that player, especially to trade away.

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:12 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:58 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:49 pm

Simmonds for Hartman and a 4th? The Blues couldn't beat that? That's the problem. Doug had his mind made up he wasn't going to do anything so mission accomplished. Like I said, if there's a will, there's a way. Good luck to the Blues tomorrow night when Nashville comes to town.
Vets like Tank and Schwartz want to see an effort made toward the common goal which is the Cup............. Just bad. Just real bad.

What's the package that's better than Hartman and a 4th that's still palatable?

Anything. How bout a 3rd rounder and a couple players like Barbie. Or a 2nd rounder and a couple players. It could of been done. I'm not going to cut Army any slack here. The guy said from the beginning he had his focus on a hockey trade only. He said that on TSN recently too. Whatever. It's Doug Armstrong. I'm not cutting him a break here. The guy didn't do what needed to be done, and that is to improve his teams chances in the playoffs. It's a hot team riding the wave with a new coach and a new goalie. If he wants to end the ride then so be it. I mean the guy had his mind on Del Fuckn Zotto. Please. Ridiculous.

I'm not cutting him any slack, but in reference to Simmonds I think the Blues were better off staying out of that bidding. I don't think Simmonds is nearly worth a 2nd, and I think the team is much better off with Barbashev and a 3rd than with Simmonds. Simmonds would help the PP, but I don't think he helps you 5 on 5 at this point, and certainly not moreso than any of the Centers on the roster right now. You and I probably have different opinions of Simmonds, which is fine.

In reference to the bigger picture, when I look at the trades that went down today, I don't see any that jump out and say "damn, we should've beat/matched that offer". To me Army standing pat is a vote of confidence within the room after selling off the last 2 years. I think a guy like Maroon plays his ass off the rest of the year after being rumored to be on the block for the last 3 months. In the offseason, I'll be disappointed if Allen isn't moved. I'll be disappointed if they don't shake up the blueline in some manner. Aside from that, I just don't see a lot to get upset about today.

I gotta be honest, I'm very happy with Hartman being a Flyer.

One of the BIG reasons that the team is still showing strong in spite of losing Perron, Gunnarsson, and now Schenn, is the chemistry, how everyone's playing for each other now. To give up a couple of roster pieces AND a draft pick, especially young players who are doing well in their roles, for a Simmonds rental just doesn't make sense.

I have no doubt Armstrong consulted with Berube, as well, as to what the team needed, who they'd be willing to give up, etc. We're not a Wayne Simmonds away from being cup finalist favorites. It would have been the Ryan Miller trade all over again.

I WOULD love to see Army pursue Simmonds in the off-season, though, but I suspect some team will be willing to over-pay him (in terms of money and/or term) thinking he'll still be the physical, 2-way, 30 goal scorer he has been in the past.

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:24 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:12 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:58 pm

What's the package that's better than Hartman and a 4th that's still palatable?

Anything. How bout a 3rd rounder and a couple players like Barbie. Or a 2nd rounder and a couple players. It could of been done. I'm not going to cut Army any slack here. The guy said from the beginning he had his focus on a hockey trade only. He said that on TSN recently too. Whatever. It's Doug Armstrong. I'm not cutting him a break here. The guy didn't do what needed to be done, and that is to improve his teams chances in the playoffs. It's a hot team riding the wave with a new coach and a new goalie. If he wants to end the ride then so be it. I mean the guy had his mind on Del Fuckn Zotto. Please. Ridiculous.

I'm not cutting him any slack, but in reference to Simmonds I think the Blues were better off staying out of that bidding. I don't think Simmonds is nearly worth a 2nd, and I think the team is much better off with Barbashev and a 3rd than with Simmonds. Simmonds would help the PP, but I don't think he helps you 5 on 5 at this point, and certainly not moreso than any of the Centers on the roster right now. You and I probably have different opinions of Simmonds, which is fine.

In reference to the bigger picture, when I look at the trades that went down today, I don't see any that jump out and say "damn, we should've beat/matched that offer". To me Army standing pat is a vote of confidence within the room after selling off the last 2 years. I think a guy like Maroon plays his ass off the rest of the year after being rumored to be on the block for the last 3 months. In the offseason, I'll be disappointed if Allen isn't moved. I'll be disappointed if they don't shake up the blueline in some manner. Aside from that, I just don't see a lot to get upset about today.

It's not just the addition of the 2 players themselves but the mental advantage the rest of the team got knowing what they've just gained.

Before today, Blues looked like they could beat Nashville in the 1st round.

After today, do you think the Blues can still beat Nashville in the 1st round? And if your answer is no, are you okay with that?

NHLTIM wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:21 pm Of course we will all be regretting this tomorrow night when Simmonds comes out and opens a can of whoop ass on us!!!

This will 100% come to pass, haha.

Yeah, I was high on Simmons, but happy that we didn't overpay for him as a rental. If a 2-3 year extension was included, maybe, but not for 2 months.

This isn't our year, so keep what assets we have, and make some draft day deals to improve the new core of this team.

Adding Simmonds and Granlund and taking away hartman and Fiala hardly change my mind about Nashville. That’s not a huge difference between those players.

Same way adding simmonds to the Blues wouldn’t really change my expectations. He’s average at 5 on 5 and benefits greatly from a dynamite power play (same way schenn led the league in PP goals in philly). He wouldn’t produce like that in Stl and won’t in Nashville

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:28 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:24 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:12 pm

Anything. How bout a 3rd rounder and a couple players like Barbie. Or a 2nd rounder and a couple players. It could of been done. I'm not going to cut Army any slack here. The guy said from the beginning he had his focus on a hockey trade only. He said that on TSN recently too. Whatever. It's Doug Armstrong. I'm not cutting him a break here. The guy didn't do what needed to be done, and that is to improve his teams chances in the playoffs. It's a hot team riding the wave with a new coach and a new goalie. If he wants to end the ride then so be it. I mean the guy had his mind on Del Fuckn Zotto. Please. Ridiculous.

I'm not cutting him any slack, but in reference to Simmonds I think the Blues were better off staying out of that bidding. I don't think Simmonds is nearly worth a 2nd, and I think the team is much better off with Barbashev and a 3rd than with Simmonds. Simmonds would help the PP, but I don't think he helps you 5 on 5 at this point, and certainly not moreso than any of the Centers on the roster right now. You and I probably have different opinions of Simmonds, which is fine.

In reference to the bigger picture, when I look at the trades that went down today, I don't see any that jump out and say "damn, we should've beat/matched that offer". To me Army standing pat is a vote of confidence within the room after selling off the last 2 years. I think a guy like Maroon plays his ass off the rest of the year after being rumored to be on the block for the last 3 months. In the offseason, I'll be disappointed if Allen isn't moved. I'll be disappointed if they don't shake up the blueline in some manner. Aside from that, I just don't see a lot to get upset about today.

It's not just the addition of the 2 players themselves but the mental advantage the rest of the team got knowing what they've just gained.

Before today, Blues looked like they could beat Nashville in the 1st round.

After today, do you think the Blues can still beat Nashville in the 1st round? And if your answer is no, are you okay with that?

The fact that we are even talking playoffs with this team is something I personally am OK with. Just a few weeks ago, 99% of us were posting #LoseForHughes and now we are talking about beating on of the top 4 WC teams in the playoffs as a reality?

I've never personally felt this was our year to 'go for it' as we have too many moving parts towards building the 'new core' (Thomas, Kyrou, Tarasenko, Parayko, JEd, Schenn, ROR) and some old parts to move on from (Petro, JayBo, Gunner, Allen, Maroon, Steen). IMHO, this will be a huge off-season for the Blues, and the test for Blues management and ownership on who stays and who should be moved on from starts now.

As to the momentum thing, you can also look at like this: The Blues management is confident in the team they have, so go out and make something happen. To me, that would be as motivating as saying 'hey, this team wasn't very good, we had to bring in some extra pieces.'

And no matter what, of the 20+ teams that made deals over the last week, and those who didn't, only one team can truly say they won. Everyone else will have their moves questioned and second guessed, regardless of how 'close' they came.