Yeah I know its 5 weeks away. But other than playoffs and the draft this is the most exciting thing on the calendar. And I thought we could use a main thread for the discussion.

Army has his work cut out for him this year.

1. Are we buyers or sellers? Were not good enough to think we are pushing for the cup this year. I think we could end up doing a little of both.

2. The standings are crazy this year. Pitt is in the middle of the pack, Winnipeg is up high, and WTF Vegas!

3. We have lots of good prospects, please keep Kyrou and Thomas

4. We have 7MM coming off the books next year, maybe more.

5. There is a DEFINITE need for a scoring forward.

6. We don't have a 1st round pick in 2018.

7. Army just signed an extension, thinking he will be more conservative

You're thoughts, trade ideas, rumors, funny stories welcome here:

I don't see Army giving up assets for rentals anymore, like he did for Hitch. If he trades a prospect now, it will be for someone who can grow with this bunch of kids that they are gathering. Last night's game was a great example of how the game is evolving, and you have to be able to match speed with speed. A move for Hoffman makes sense, in that he has speed to burn, and will pot a fair amount of goals...you would have to get more than two years of service out of him if you're giving back a valuable asset, and extending him will cost a ton. I have looked at this year as a transitional year, and next year to be the breakout season. I'd hate to see someone like Kyrou coming into his own in a couple of years as Hoffman moves on to gr$$ner pastures. The Blues are eeking out wins... that wont happen in the playoffs. If they can sell Stasny, Jaybo, and Jake (not liking what's between his ears), I'd be ok with that. YHFC is the way to go at this point.

IMO Armstrong will play it safe. He usually does. I wouldn't even rule it out if he does nothing. Will he trade Schmaltz in a minor deal? Will he get rental winger for a 3rd or 4th rd pick? Those types of trades he might make. Other than that, I wouldn't count on much.

Turk Sanderson wrote: I have looked at this year as a transitional year, and next year to be the breakout season.

How do you see the team breaking out next year? Because of the kids? It's going to take time with those guys IMO.

Unless he can swing some deals for Bouwmeester and Stastny and use the open/added cap space for some other additions, I don't see the kids having an immediate impact.

Good summary of the more burning questions, 39. A few assorted thoughts of my own...I still thing Armstrong is in more of a buyer mode, but the right deal is going to be tricky. I'm not sure how the much discussed deal for Hoffman would work under the cap. There'd have to be a salary or two going back that we might not expect. With Schwartz's return expected relatively soon, you'd have to think any trade is held off until Armstrong sees how the current roster looks with him back in the lineup. I'm ok with a non-Thomas prospect being included in a deal, although it sure does seem like Kyrou is the exact type of player you need in today's game. Finally, I don't think there will be any trade involving goaltending. I don't think there's a lot of options out there, so best bet is just to let Jake get his shit together, or ride Hutton until he breaks.

BillP wrote:

Turk Sanderson wrote: I have looked at this year as a transitional year, and next year to be the breakout season.

How do you see the team breaking out next year? Because of the kids? It's going to take time with those guys IMO.

Unless he can swing some deals for Bouwmeester and Stastny and use the open/added cap space for some other additions, I don't see the kids having an immediate impact.

Both fair points. I guess the argument for a breakout next year is that the first wave of kids, Dunn and Thompson, will be broken in next year, and the next wave will be a bit more NHL ready from the start than those 2. I'm expecting Thomas and Kyrou to be on the roster next year, but not sure Kostin will be a full time NHL player yet. If so, you're right Bill, even if they're very mature, breaking in 3 top 9 rookies at the same time isn't ideal. That's part of why I think one of them gets moved before the deadline or over the summer.

BillP wrote:

Turk Sanderson wrote: I have looked at this year as a transitional year, and next year to be the breakout season.

How do you see the team breaking out next year? Because of the kids? It's going to take time with those guys IMO.

Unless he can swing some deals for Bouwmeester and Stastny and use the open/added cap space for some other additions, I don't see the kids having an immediate impact.

The difference is that I don't hate Army like you do. Next year the Blues will have an infusion of speed and skill, while shedding slow and burned out vets. They will be much like the Leafs with a much better defense. If the Leafs had a little better defense, they would be world beaters.

None of the guys available do anything for me. (Kane, Hoffman, Patches, Simmonds). They just don't fit in with where the team is headed. We have enough vets on hand to help as the kids come into the lineup.

Turk Sanderson wrote:

BillP wrote:

Turk Sanderson wrote: I have looked at this year as a transitional year, and next year to be the breakout season.

How do you see the team breaking out next year? Because of the kids? It's going to take time with those guys IMO.

Unless he can swing some deals for Bouwmeester and Stastny and use the open/added cap space for some other additions, I don't see the kids having an immediate impact.

The difference is that I don't hate Army like you do. Next year the Blues will have an infusion of speed and skill, while shedding slow and burned out vets. They will be much like the Leafs with a much better defense. If the Leafs had a little better defense, they would be world beaters.

Ha Ha on the Army quip
Give it time, you might join me yet!!

IMO the whole speed thing is overblown. Only 1 guy can carry the puck and it's not like coaches crave to constantly exchange 3 on 2's anyway. So everyone talks about speed but then when the game is played, the coaches neutralize it to slow the game down. And when teams are in the offensive end applying pressure, it's the meat and potato guys that get you the goals. You can talk about speed all you want, but it's the teams that can score the ugly goals that win the games IMO.

BillP wrote:

Turk Sanderson wrote:

BillP wrote:
How do you see the team breaking out next year? Because of the kids? It's going to take time with those guys IMO.

Unless he can swing some deals for Bouwmeester and Stastny and use the open/added cap space for some other additions, I don't see the kids having an immediate impact.

The difference is that I don't hate Army like you do. Next year the Blues will have an infusion of speed and skill, while shedding slow and burned out vets. They will be much like the Leafs with a much better defense. If the Leafs had a little better defense, they would be world beaters.

Ha Ha on the Army quip
Give it time, you might join me yet!!

IMO the whole speed thing is overblown. Only 1 guy can carry the puck and it's not like coaches crave to constantly exchange 3 on 2's anyway. So everyone talks about speed but then when the game is played, the coaches neutralize it to slow the game down. And when teams are in the offensive end applying pressure, it's the meat and potato guys that get you the goals. You can talk about speed all you want, but it's the teams that can score the ugly goals that win the games IMO.

The teams that have beaten the Blues this year, are the teams that are able to turn the game into a track meet. The Blues haven't been able to match them without a week's rest. The game is becoming younger and faster...hop on and enjoy the ride.

BillP wrote:

Turk Sanderson wrote:

BillP wrote:
How do you see the team breaking out next year? Because of the kids? It's going to take time with those guys IMO.

Unless he can swing some deals for Bouwmeester and Stastny and use the open/added cap space for some other additions, I don't see the kids having an immediate impact.

The difference is that I don't hate Army like you do. Next year the Blues will have an infusion of speed and skill, while shedding slow and burned out vets. They will be much like the Leafs with a much better defense. If the Leafs had a little better defense, they would be world beaters.

Ha Ha on the Army quip
Give it time, you might join me yet!!

IMO the whole speed thing is overblown. Only 1 guy can carry the puck and it's not like coaches crave to constantly exchange 3 on 2's anyway. So everyone talks about speed but then when the game is played, the coaches neutralize it to slow the game down. And when teams are in the offensive end applying pressure, it's the meat and potato guys that get you the goals. You can talk about speed all you want, but it's the teams that can score the ugly goals that win the games IMO.

Tell that to Tampa and Pittsburgh. Hell Pittsburgh won back to back cups by blowing teams away on entries and quick strike offense off of turnovers. There's not just one way to win. It's also not just about the puck carrier's speed. The whole five man unit moving fast and moving the puck fast is hell to defend. Also speed and ugly goals are not mutually exclusive. Fast guys can score ugly goals too.

My wishes:

1. Do NOT trade any of our prospects named Thompson, Thomas, Kostin, or Kyrou for anything less than a proven 30-40 goal scorer who still has a couple years or will sign and trade to us.

2. Please, please trade one or more of: JayBo, Berglund, Sobi, Gunnerson, or Steen. Move the salary to secure Eddy

3. We are clearly in a transition year. Four forwards are UFA's, and two (Jaskin and Sundqvist) are RFA's.
Yes, going with 'youth' is dangerous, but so is any age of a team. It's not just the age, it is the chemistry or potential chemistry of a team so they can have a consistent identity. One of the reasons I think our D struggles with JayBo in the mix isn't a knock on him really, it is just that JayBo doesn't match well with our aggressive style D. Same with Berglund and Steen; they both just seem to struggle with the 'fast game'- which isn't just speed of the skater, but how quick they can move the puck and transition from defense to offense.

LSS, I'm really hoping that DA proves Billy right, and makes no major moves to improve for this season, but shed's some salary to make room for the next wave of youth:

Be honest, don't this lineup looks more exciting for 18/19

Schwartz/Schenn/Fabbri
Kostin/Barbashev/Tarasenko
Kyrou/Thomas/Thompson

4th line/extras: Sanford/Blais/Steen/Berglund/Sobi/Jaskin

Keep in mind, there are also a few other prospects who'll be knocking on the door next season too, that could be good trade bait for temporary scoring this season: Blais, Kaspick, Musil, Walman, and Schmaltz.

They need to stand pat unless they can add firepower to their top nine that is more than a rental. Hoffman isn't the answer.

I'd rather see what this team looks like with Fabbri, Thompson, Thomas, and possibly Kyrou next year. The Blues are set at D. They need to add some players on offense. Why trade away the kids when they could be the answer to this teams problem.

Adding Patches or Hoffman doesn't put this team over the top. I'd rather they let this team develop and see where they're at next year at this time

To me, what we do at the deadline is more dependent than ever on what we are setting up for next year. I'm all for getting some help, but it needs to fit the team for the next 3-5 years and not just a year or two. Looking at next year, I would like to see the core of this team transition something like this:

Schwartz-Schenn-[RW]
Fabbri-[C]-Tarasenko
Steen-Berglund-[RW]
Jaskin-Brodziak-Sanford
[Thorburn, extra]

Eddy-Petro
Dunn-Parayko
[LD]-[RD]
[extra]

Allen-Husso

I expect Thompson to grab one of the RW spots with the experience he is gaining this season. I hope Kyrou and Thomas will challenge for the remaining [RW] and [C] spots, but time will tell. If you want to dream a little, there is plenty of room to add someone like Tavares at the C slot and really jump start the re-tool. Adding any Top 6 forward (even if it means bringing Stastny back) would probably push one of Jaskin or Sanford into an extra role. Sobotka, Upshall, Sunqvist and Paajarvi are gone. Hopefully we can get a low 1st/high 2nd for Sobotka at the draft if not sooner. Ultimately, we should be able to roll 4 lines that can score, so I'm not really concerned about one of the kids playing up or even slotting one of them on the 4th line to balance the attack. I'd wouldn't mind seeing some speed and finish on every line we run out there.

On D, I'd love to see Walman and Schmaltz both grab the empty spots, but more likely we will have one more year of Bouwmeester at LD. With Schmaltz at RD, that leaves Bortuzzo as your 7th, which frankly is where he belongs. Like Sobotka, I hope that Gunnarsson returns something nice at or before the draft.

Allen (hopefully) gets some things figured out down the stretch, but I think Hutton's play this season has priced him out of returning. I think someone gives him more than we should to be their starter or 1B. I think Husso wins the competition with Binnington to back up Allen.

So back to the point of the thread, who can we get at the deadline to fit one of these open slots without giving up someone who has a spot next year or one of Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson or Kostin? Frankly, these prospects are listed in the way I value them, so if there is a deal out there for a special player that will cost us our 2019 1st + Kostin + a cap dump, I would be down with that. I would also be fine if they just spent a 3rd or a 4th+"B" prospect to get Maroon as a rental and hoped that he would bring some "hometown boy magic" for a playoff run. Give him a role like Brouwer had a couple of years ago and hope for the best.

Mook - I agree with a lot of what you said. However, there's no way i trade 2019 1st round pick when we already won't have a 2018 1st round pick. Trading away 1st round picks is how teams fall apart quickly

I don't think it will be a monster deal (especially with the talk that Karlsson might be moved from Ottawa), but I think Armstrong has something surprising up his sleeve.

I'm just going to throw a name out there that I give better than a 50% chance of being gone by the trade deadline:

Joel Edmundson.

I've heard a rumbling that the teams Armstrong is talking to for forwards want a reliable top-4 defenceman. He'll be the one to go, unless they shoot way over the top.

RegDunlop wrote:Mook - I agree with a lot of what you said. However, there's no way i trade 2019 1st round pick when we already won't have a 2018 1st round pick. Trading away 1st round picks is how teams fall apart quickly

It would have to be a special player that met some really specific criteria (young, proven, 4+ years of control) before I would do that, but I would for the right player. For example, if EDM felt like they made a mistake in the Draisaitl deal, I would absolutely move that pick and Kostin to get the deal done. The players that fit this criteria probably aren't available for that package (like Schiefele, Kuznetsov, Pastrnak, Barkov, Monahan, Gaudreau) but never say never.

I think there has to be some youth headed out the door over the next 9 months one way or another. Just look at all of these guys that are out of the lineup right now: Thomas, Kyrou, Kostin, Fabbri, Sanford. That's not even counting Thompson and Blais. Each of those players need to be in the top 9 to be utilized properly, and they all "should" be in the lineup next year. There's just not enough room, and even if there were, you can't expect to win with that many first or second year players (plus Fabbri/Sanford).

Allen's a quagmire at best, fixing him or the situation with a different goalie will be nearly impossible.

Bouw, it's time, find a way to go LTIR.

Trade a pointless youngster or two and get either a great center, or steal a scorer from someone.

As much as I want to bag on him, we do need to lock up 6.

I'm worried that Pie at captain is a liability. I honestly don't know who could step up and lead us through the tough times.

SpacemanSpiff wrote:I don't think it will be a monster deal (especially with the talk that Karlsson might be moved from Ottawa), but I think Armstrong has something surprising up his sleeve.

I'm just going to throw a name out there that I give better than a 50% chance of being gone by the trade deadline:

Joel Edmundson.

I've heard a rumbling that the teams Armstrong is talking to for forwards want a reliable top-4 defenceman. He'll be the one to go, unless they shoot way over the top.

I think that would be a mistake. I'd hate to subtract toughness off this team. I don't want a soft team. I'd keep Joel, especially since it's possible Bortuzzo might lose his starting gig next yr. Plus, IMO, Blues need to add muscle to the top 9 bad. Soft teams do not win in this league.

ratonmono wrote:None of the guys available do anything for me. (Kane, Hoffman, Patches, Simmonds). They just don't fit in with where the team is headed. We have enough vets on hand to help as the kids come into the lineup.

Well I suggest you change the way you think buddy!

SpacemanSpiff wrote:I don't think it will be a monster deal (especially with the talk that Karlsson might be moved from Ottawa), but I think Armstrong has something surprising up his sleeve.

I'm just going to throw a name out there that I give better than a 50% chance of being gone by the trade deadline:

Joel Edmundson.

I've heard a rumbling that the teams Armstrong is talking to for forwards want a reliable top-4 defenceman. He'll be the one to go, unless they shoot way over the top.

Not me...I don't think Edmundson's going anywhere...He's young, tough, can play the game, and cost controlled ( RFA is pretty much cost controlled unless he bolts for Omsk). He's exactly what the Blues don't need to get rid of.

bradleygt89 wrote:My wishes:


Schwartz/Schenn/Fabbri
Kostin/Barbashev/Tarasenko
Kyrou/Thomas/Thompson

Not bad, would like another Center though instead of Barbie and I'd like at least 20 more pounds on Thompson

Turk Sanderson wrote:

SpacemanSpiff wrote:I don't think it will be a monster deal (especially with the talk that Karlsson might be moved from Ottawa), but I think Armstrong has something surprising up his sleeve.

I'm just going to throw a name out there that I give better than a 50% chance of being gone by the trade deadline:

Joel Edmundson.

I've heard a rumbling that the teams Armstrong is talking to for forwards want a reliable top-4 defenceman. He'll be the one to go, unless they shoot way over the top.

Not me...I don't think Edmundson's going anywhere...He's young, tough, can play the game, and cost controlled ( RFA is pretty much cost controlled unless he bolts for Omsk). He's exactly what the Blues don't need to get rid of.

You also have to give to get.

You can't expect a 3rd round draft pick and a guy like Schmaltz to get us a top 6 player.

SpacemanSpiff wrote:

Turk Sanderson wrote:

SpacemanSpiff wrote:I don't think it will be a monster deal (especially with the talk that Karlsson might be moved from Ottawa), but I think Armstrong has something surprising up his sleeve.

I'm just going to throw a name out there that I give better than a 50% chance of being gone by the trade deadline:

Joel Edmundson.

I've heard a rumbling that the teams Armstrong is talking to for forwards want a reliable top-4 defenceman. He'll be the one to go, unless they shoot way over the top.

Not me...I don't think Edmundson's going anywhere...He's young, tough, can play the game, and cost controlled ( RFA is pretty much cost controlled unless he bolts for Omsk). He's exactly what the Blues don't need to get rid of.

You also have to give to get.

You can't expect a 3rd round draft pick and a guy like Schmaltz to get us a top 6 player.

You can if the other guy wants to dump payroll. Remember the Pronger deal...