What you all think? I think he's done a good job overall. We've been competitive, reached the WCF two seasons ago, and have a strong group of prospects, and he's pulled off more good deals than bad, IMHO. But does he have that 'killer instinct' to get us to the next level? Is that even a real thing for the GM spot? Or is longevity and continuation of a team's growth more important? I know as fans we love to shake it up, but the teams that have reached the Cup and won it as well all have had very stable ownership and management groups overall.

Portion of article from JR on The Athletic:

"The Blues' flight home from Vancouver International Airport had already been delayed several hours because of a mechanical issue with the team's plane when general manager Doug Armstrong stepped to the front of the waiting area to provide the players and staff with an update.

“I've got good news and bad news,” Armstrong said. “The bad news is it's going to be a little while longer before we get out of here. The good news is I just signed a five-year contract extension!”
As difficult as it was for the Blues to summon even a smile toward the end of what turned out to be a 14-hour wait, the room roared in laughter. The slap-happy club would eventually make it back to St. Louis, and in the five years since that lengthy layover in 2013, they've been flying near the top of the NHL standings every year.
There's been some turbulence lately, but the Blues still sit fifth in the league before meeting Montreal at the Bell Centre Wednesday night. All seems to be smooth sailing, with one exception — Armstrong's contract is set to expire in June.

The Blues' general manager is not alone. Frank Provenzano, who worked for Armstrong in Dallas, recently wrote an article for The Athletic addressing the dangers NHL teams face by operating with a GM in the final year of his contract. But of the three Provenzano mentioned in the piece, the stamp Armstrong has put on the Blues would make it seem that a return beyond his eighth season needs only a rubber-stamp.
So what's taking so long?

In training camp last September, Blues owner Tom Stillman told The Athletic that he was in no rush to finalize an extension with Armstrong and that being in the walk-year of his contract would not be a distraction to the organization. Two months later, there remains no agreement between the two sides, but when asked for an update Monday, Stillman offered: “We have begun discussions on a contract extension, and we have every expectation that Doug will remain as the Blues' GM.”

There's no reason to doubt the Blues' owner, who has tremendous respect for Armstrong, and it's hard to envision a scenario in which the GM won't stay in charge of the Blues. But the longer this stays unsettled leaves the possibility — however slim — that things can go awry, and at the very least it leaves some of his staff whose contracts may also be expiring this summer wondering about their futures as well.

THE SUCCESS

In 2008, the Blues hired Armstrong as their “GM in waiting,” the person who would replace Larry Pleau in 2010. In the seven-plus seasons since, the Blues have a record of 331-180-56. The 331 wins are the second-most in the NHL behind Pittsburgh (343), and the team's .633 points-percentage is third in the league behind Pittsburgh (.652) and Chicago (.639).

Read more (and yes, there is a lot more with graphs, insights, other GM's perspectives, and more...if you wish to subscribe, click this link: https://theathletic.com/checkout?pc=raf ... _by=133705 )

Rest of the article is here: https://theathletic.com/174924/2017/12/ ... han-later/

I think there must be something odd behind the scenes that we're not privy to, otherwise this would've been done over the summer at the latest. While he's had a few missteps, he's had more than made up for them, and you can't argue with the sustained success. It's just a bit odd to me that he's not locked up already.

Second most wins...except in the playoffs where it counts...and still has not replaced the talent he let walk from that WCF team.

CaptSMRT wrote:Second most wins...except in the playoffs where it counts...and still has not replaced the talent he let walk from that WCF team.

Umm...

Getterdone Tom!!!

Dave's a mess wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:Second most wins...except in the playoffs where it counts...and still has not replaced the talent he let walk from that WCF team.

Umm...

schenn backes brouwer stats.JPG

But STEEEEEEEEEEEEN!!!! AND NO more Perron!!!!!! And what about Jay Bo!!!!!

JK Capn

Yeah, haven't been a fan of all his deals and contracts, but which GM is perfect? To me, as long as a GM is over .500 in hits over misses, that is pretty good, especially when considering all the intangible aspects that take place within a deal...

I hear Keenan is available. Maybe Stillman is interested.....

I think there was a time when we could have moved on from Army but for me personally he's back in my good graces. More importantly...who out there could we get that's better. Botterill is the guy that I thought would be the perfect replacement but other than that, there just aren't many guys on Army's level.

barnburner wrote:I hear Keenan is available. Maybe Stillman is interested.....

That would be like Mike Martz... you hand him the keys to a Ferrari, and when he leaves town you're stuck with a broken down Ford Pinto, wondering what in the fuck just happened.

Dave's a mess wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:Second most wins...except in the playoffs where it counts...and still has not replaced the talent he let walk from that WCF team.

Umm...

schenn backes brouwer stats.JPG

Hey......Originally it was Lehtera and Perron instead of Schenn. And let's throw in that beauty of a trade for Yakupov last year. That was brilliant.

So let's not forget where this team was and how close it was to being the same team.

DA caught a break with the Vegas draft in being able to unload Perron and he was lucky as hell that Hextall made that deal with him & got Schenn.

But yeah, this team was on the wrong path.

And Backes would be a much better fit for this team than retaining Steen. That was true last year & its looking even more evident now.

Brouwer we can dismiss, although, unlike in Calgary where he isn't really a good fit there, he would fit in fine with the Blues. Anyway, signing a clown like Beau Bennett was a joke by DA. With free agency you have quality veterans looking for work at bargain prices every year now, so why sign Bennett in June and call it a day? My goodness even Devant Smith-Pelley would of been a better signing than Bennett.

I mean we do want to win a Cup right? People are talking about the future with the kids, but we don't know who's going to be good, how many of them or how long its going to take for these kids to mature. Even if we hit on 3 of the kids, suppose it takes 3 years for them to hit full stride, that's 3 more years off of Tarasenko's contract, not too mention Pietrangelo's & other core guys like Schenn & Schwartz. I mean we really should be trying to win that Cup now. We keep talking about the future and the best is to come but where is Robbie Fabbri today? Things can change & the Blues shouldn't assume they will always be in position to win a Cup but it seems that's everyone's mindset now.

NHLTIM wrote:I think there was a time when we could have moved on from Army but for me personally he's back in my good graces. More importantly...who out there could we get that's better. Botterill is the guy that I thought would be the perfect replacement but other than that, there just aren't many guys on Army's level.

There's always someone better than you in life Tim, you know that. That's life.

DA is not a visionary. When he took over as GM, this team's talent pool was already laid out for him. He had his chance to get the team to the Cup and he failed..........now he's getting a 2nd chance and what we witnessed last year and going forward is his baby, it'll be his own creation.

But Doug is conservative and instead of taking the initiative to lead a team into a certain direction, he likes to sit back and see what his mgmt. team can do on its own and then react. The only way I see us winning a Cup with Doug is if Bill Armstrong hits home runs in the draft, otherwise I don't see Doug getting the job done here.

I look at it different than you Billy. If all you have to complain about are a couple bad signings and trades that are for salaries less than $2M and no long term commitment (Yaks and Bennett)...that's a win there. We have a few contracts that aren't great (Jay Bo and Steen) but having just one buy out...McKee, whom he didn't even sign, on your record is pretty damn good.

He isn't conservative IMHO, but he is measured and patience. Which to a fan base whose enjoyed competitive teams but no Championship it is hard to be patient back. I'd say a 3-5 year extension is warranted, but only after full filling my wish for bringing in a second line winger as a Christmas present

BillP wrote:Brouwer we can dismiss

why?

BillP wrote:

Dave's a mess wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:Second most wins...except in the playoffs where it counts...and still has not replaced the talent he let walk from that WCF team.

Umm...

schenn backes brouwer stats.JPG

Hey......Originally it was Lehtera and Perron instead of Schenn. And let's throw in that beauty of a trade for Yakupov last year. That was brilliant.

So let's not forget where this team was and how close it was to being the same team.

DA caught a break with the Vegas draft in being able to unload Perron and he was lucky as hell that Hextall made that deal with him & got Schenn.

But yeah, this team was on the wrong path.

And Backes would be a much better fit for this team than retaining Steen. That was true last year & its looking even more evident now.

Brouwer we can dismiss, although, unlike in Calgary where he isn't really a good fit there, he would fit in fine with the Blues. Anyway, signing a clown like Beau Bennett was a joke by DA. With free agency you have quality veterans looking for work at bargain prices every year now, so why sign Bennett in June and call it a day? My goodness even Devant Smith-Pelley would of been a better signing than Bennett.

I mean we do want to win a Cup right? People are talking about the future with the kids, but we don't know who's going to be good, how many of them or how long its going to take for these kids to mature. Even if we hit on 3 of the kids, suppose it takes 3 years for them to hit full stride, that's 3 more years off of Tarasenko's contract, not too mention Pietrangelo's & other core guys like Schenn & Schwartz. I mean we really should be trying to win that Cup now. We keep talking about the future and the best is to come but where is Robbie Fabbri today? Things can change & the Blues shouldn't assume they will always be in position to win a Cup but it seems that's everyone's mindset now.

Bill P bringing it.

Wow. Blues fans for sure.

Were tops in the league, have a lot of good players, a lot of good prospects, we're only down one 1st round pick, and as an organization were light years ahead of where we were in 05-06.

I feel like some of you guys wouldn't be happy if we were the 79 Islanders or the 83 Oilers.

BillP wrote:

Dave's a mess wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:Second most wins...except in the playoffs where it counts...and still has not replaced the talent he let walk from that WCF team.

Umm...

schenn backes brouwer stats.JPG

Hey......Originally it was Lehtera and Perron instead of Schenn. And let's throw in that beauty of a trade for Yakupov last year. That was brilliant.

So let's not forget where this team was and how close it was to being the same team.

DA caught a break with the Vegas draft in being able to unload Perron and he was lucky as hell that Hextall made that deal with him & got Schenn.

But yeah, this team was on the wrong path.

And Backes would be a much better fit for this team than retaining Steen. That was true last year & its looking even more evident now.

Brouwer we can dismiss, although, unlike in Calgary where he isn't really a good fit there, he would fit in fine with the Blues. Anyway, signing a clown like Beau Bennett was a joke by DA. With free agency you have quality veterans looking for work at bargain prices every year now, so why sign Bennett in June and call it a day? My goodness even Devant Smith-Pelley would of been a better signing than Bennett.

I mean we do want to win a Cup right? People are talking about the future with the kids, but we don't know who's going to be good, how many of them or how long its going to take for these kids to mature. Even if we hit on 3 of the kids, suppose it takes 3 years for them to hit full stride, that's 3 more years off of Tarasenko's contract, not too mention Pietrangelo's & other core guys like Schenn & Schwartz. I mean we really should be trying to win that Cup now. We keep talking about the future and the best is to come but where is Robbie Fabbri today? Things can change & the Blues shouldn't assume they will always be in position to win a Cup but it seems that's everyone's mindset now.

I'm not entirely sure what the overall point of this post was. I think it was that Armstrong is bad and Bill P impressively manages to spell very well while drinking. A few points in response:

-Armstrong is anything but conservative. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 extremely risky trades he's made since taking over (EJ/Shatty, Miller/Ott, Schenn). So far it looks like big wins in 2 of those 3. I'll take that.
-Is signing Beau Bennett to a league minimum deal and flushing him to the minors when he looks bad that big of a deal? I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic there or not.
-Where did you get the idea the Blues aren't trying to win a Cup this year? They traded away 2 first round picks in the spring for a player that will help them win now. That's the definition of going for it. Don't mistake not making a move in season before Christmas while 2 key contributors recover from injury for complacency.
-I think your point in the paragraph about the kids is that DA should trade some of them for help this season. Sure, I agree, but I don't have a problem waiting to see how the team looks with its full roster for a while first. I imagine the prospect depth will be dipped into before the deadline.

I don't think Armstrong is the best GM in the league, but he absolutely knows what he's doing. His sustained success here shouldn't be something that's just glossed over. Sure, getting knocked out of the playoffs earlier than expected on occasion sucks, but that's sports for you. I think Armstrong has been here for long enough now that fans are just too bored with him to realize he's probably the best GM the team has ever had.

Dave's a mess wrote:

BillP wrote:

Dave's a mess wrote:
Umm...

schenn backes brouwer stats.JPG

Hey......Originally it was Lehtera and Perron instead of Schenn. And let's throw in that beauty of a trade for Yakupov last year. That was brilliant.

So let's not forget where this team was and how close it was to being the same team.

DA caught a break with the Vegas draft in being able to unload Perron and he was lucky as hell that Hextall made that deal with him & got Schenn.

But yeah, this team was on the wrong path.

And Backes would be a much better fit for this team than retaining Steen. That was true last year & its looking even more evident now.

Brouwer we can dismiss, although, unlike in Calgary where he isn't really a good fit there, he would fit in fine with the Blues. Anyway, signing a clown like Beau Bennett was a joke by DA. With free agency you have quality veterans looking for work at bargain prices every year now, so why sign Bennett in June and call it a day? My goodness even Devant Smith-Pelley would of been a better signing than Bennett.

I mean we do want to win a Cup right? People are talking about the future with the kids, but we don't know who's going to be good, how many of them or how long its going to take for these kids to mature. Even if we hit on 3 of the kids, suppose it takes 3 years for them to hit full stride, that's 3 more years off of Tarasenko's contract, not too mention Pietrangelo's & other core guys like Schenn & Schwartz. I mean we really should be trying to win that Cup now. We keep talking about the future and the best is to come but where is Robbie Fabbri today? Things can change & the Blues shouldn't assume they will always be in position to win a Cup but it seems that's everyone's mindset now.

I'm not entirely sure what the overall point of this post was. I think it was that Armstrong is bad and Bill P impressively manages to spell very well while drinking. A few points in response:

-Armstrong is anything but conservative. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 extremely risky trades he's made since taking over (EJ/Shatty, Miller/Ott, Schenn). So far it looks like big wins in 2 of those 3. I'll take that.
-Is signing Beau Bennett to a league minimum deal and flushing him to the minors when he looks bad that big of a deal? I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic there or not.
-Where did you get the idea the Blues aren't trying to win a Cup this year? They traded away 2 first round picks in the spring for a player that will help them win now. That's the definition of going for it. Don't mistake not making a move in season before Christmas while 2 key contributors recover from injury for complacency.
-I think your point in the paragraph about the kids is that DA should trade some of them for help this season. Sure, I agree, but I don't have a problem waiting to see how the team looks with its full roster for a while first. I imagine the prospect depth will be dipped into before the deadline.

I don't think Armstrong is the best GM in the league, but he absolutely knows what he's doing. His sustained success here shouldn't be something that's just glossed over. Sure, getting knocked out of the playoffs earlier than expected on occasion sucks, but that's sports for you. I think Armstrong has been here for long enough now that fans are just too bored with him to realize he's probably the best GM the team has ever had.

No way is DA the best GM the team has ever had.

He's been GM for 7 plus years now and you mention 3 trades. That's not a lot. And the Schenn deal was a CYA deal. The thing that shocks me about that deal was Doug was on Channel 5 last Sunday and he said the Reaves deal made the Schenn deal possible. Blows my mind that the Schenn deal was contingent on getting a 1 for Reaves.

Last year was so botched up by bringing Perron back and then trading for Yakupov. Signings like those didn't show any business savvy at all on his part in terms of team construction.

I'm not surprised DA will get an extension, I knew it was coming but at the same time, I don't see a Cup coming here either.

T.C. wrote:

BillP wrote:Brouwer we can dismiss

why?

I just said that to save typing time in trying to make a case for him. It's quite possible he would of gotten picked up by Vegas anyway if we had kept him. It would be awesome if Calgary would eat 25% of his salary and the Blues could get him back here. He's the type of forward the Blues could use right now.

Army the Best GM the Blues have ever had?
Maybe.
Maybe not.

Truthfully, the competition for that title has been underwhelming.

In the last 10 years, only 5 different teams have won Cups. So, with 26 teams out there without a recent Cup, I don't really think that is a fair argument against Doug. The playoffs can be a crap shoot at times. I haven't loved every one of his moves or signings, but in all I really like the job he has done for the present and the future. Out of the GMs without a Cup, he has to be close to the top, and I just don't see a better replacement.

BillP wrote:
No way is DA the best GM the team has ever had.

He's been GM for 7 plus years now and you mention 3 trades. That's not a lot. And the Schenn deal was a CYA deal. The thing that shocks me about that deal was Doug was on Channel 5 last Sunday and he said the Reaves deal made the Schenn deal possible. Blows my mind that the Schenn deal was contingent on getting a 1 for Reaves.

Last year was so botched up by bringing Perron back and then trading for Yakupov. Signings like those didn't show any business savvy at all on his part in terms of team construction.

I'm not surprised DA will get an extension, I knew it was coming but at the same time, I don't see a Cup coming here either.

Those 3 trades were a direct response to your point that he's conservative, which is far from the case. He's made 15 trades as GM and I think he's probably only "lost" 3 of those. I'm not sure what the problem with low risk moves like bringing Perron back and taking a low cost flyer on a number 1 overall pick is, but sure, string him up for those moves. I wasn't crazy about those in particular, but again, they didn't really cost anything of significance.

Maybe he never wins a Cup here (assuming he's re-signed), but I like what he's doing overall and am not bored with the sustained success.

By the way I still think he's the best GM in team history, but that's a bit akin to being the world's tallest dwarf.

DA is the only GM that the Blues have had that’s committed to building an organ-eye-zation, even if it costs him his job. I can’t remember anyone else that’s been like that, here. The prospect pool is deeper than it’s ever been, and the team is top-shelf. Let’s remember that this is the age of the salary-cap, not the open-checkbook. Everybody has their share of hits and misses, but I feel better about this team and the future than I ever have.

Dave's a mess wrote:

BillP wrote:
No way is DA the best GM the team has ever had.

He's been GM for 7 plus years now and you mention 3 trades. That's not a lot. And the Schenn deal was a CYA deal. The thing that shocks me about that deal was Doug was on Channel 5 last Sunday and he said the Reaves deal made the Schenn deal possible. Blows my mind that the Schenn deal was contingent on getting a 1 for Reaves.

Last year was so botched up by bringing Perron back and then trading for Yakupov. Signings like those didn't show any business savvy at all on his part in terms of team construction.

I'm not surprised DA will get an extension, I knew it was coming but at the same time, I don't see a Cup coming here either.

Those 3 trades were a direct response to your point that he's conservative, which is far from the case. He's made 15 trades as GM and I think he's probably only "lost" 3 of those. I'm not sure what the problem with low risk moves like bringing Perron back and taking a low cost flyer on a number 1 overall pick is, but sure, string him up for those moves. I wasn't crazy about those in particular, but again, they didn't really cost anything of significance.

Maybe he never wins a Cup here (assuming he's re-signed), but I like what he's doing overall and am not bored with the sustained success.

By the way I still think he's the best GM in team history, but that's a bit akin to being the world's tallest dwarf.

He is conservative. His exact quote was it's illogical to make a move for the sake of making a move. This was said in response to keeping Shattenkirk on the roster. An aggressive GM with an acute sense of direction would of traded Shattenkirk as soon as possible and prep the team to move forward. Instead he waited till the deadline and got 1 and Sanford while giving the Caps Copely back.

And didn't Doug say after the series lost to Minnesota that the organization needs to review the type of players they're bringing in? Remember that? Signing Perron who has 1 goal in his last 29 playoff games and a total of 3 in 43 doesn't signify a guy practicing what he preached.

Doug has some good points, I'm not saying he's a total goof. But he's not a difference maker of a GM IMO.

MattyIce wrote:In the last 10 years, only 5 different teams have won Cups. So, with 26 teams out there without a recent Cup, I don't really think that is a fair argument against Doug. The playoffs can be a crap shoot at times. I haven't loved every one of his moves or signings, but in all I really like the job he has done for the present and the future. Out of the GMs without a Cup, he has to be close to the top, and I just don't see a better replacement.

Blues had a 5 year run posting the best record in NHL during that time. It was the deepest, most stocked team with bargain based contracts that he probably will ever have here as Blues GM and he failed to get the team to the Cup during that time. Other teams like the Kings, who swung 2 huge deals in both years to win their Cups made it happen.

BillP wrote:

MattyIce wrote:In the last 10 years, only 5 different teams have won Cups. So, with 26 teams out there without a recent Cup, I don't really think that is a fair argument against Doug. The playoffs can be a crap shoot at times. I haven't loved every one of his moves or signings, but in all I really like the job he has done for the present and the future. Out of the GMs without a Cup, he has to be close to the top, and I just don't see a better replacement.

Blues had a 5 year run posting the best record in NHL during that time. It was the deepest, most stocked team with bargain based contracts that he probably will ever have here as Blues GM and he failed to get the team to the Cup during that time. Other teams like the Kings, who swung 2 huge deals in both years to win their Cups made it happen.

One of those years included a pretty big trade for Miller and Ott... if that isn't going all in, I don't know what is. No, they did not win the Cup that year, but at the time everyone thought that was the move to make.