Can we just take a second to recognize how skilled our D pipeline is right now? I guess I hadn't really thought about is but when you look at our current defense already in the NHL, you have potentially three guys who can be top pairing D-men, two of whom appear to be clear cut number ones.

On a side note, it's starting to make more sense to me that the Blues may shop Shattenkirk before his contract is up, seeing to how they have so many key guys with expiring contracts in the coming few seasons. Army has said he would like to see Backes retire a Blue, Schwartz is a guy I can see having a 30 goal, 70 point year this year, if I'm not mistaken Brouwers' contract is up after this year, and those are all guys whose' contracts are up this year. Next off-season Allen will also (hopefully) be in for a big payday as well, so it will be hard to re-sign Shatty if he keeps it up the way he has been, which, like I said, was that of a Number One D-man last year.

Back to prospects, we already saw very good things out of Lindbohm in the NHL last year. Parayko is clearly looking like a steal. We have first round pick Schmaltz who has looked decent and has a lot more time to grow. I like what I myself have seen of Vanelli. Dunn, from what I'm reading, is another stud. These are all guys who could be top-four caliber D-men some day! I also think Edmundson, Walman, and Sergeev could all make it to the NHL level too. What I'm saying is that I really like the way defense looks for this team both now and in the future, and I can't wait to cheer these guys on.

Oates2Hullie450 wrote: On a side note, it's starting to make more sense to me that the Blues may shop Shattenkirk before his contract is up, seeing to how they have so many key guys with expiring contracts in the coming few seasons. Army has said he would like to see Backes retire a Blue, Schwartz is a guy I can see having a 30 goal, 70 point year this year, if I'm not mistaken Brouwers' contract is up after this year, and those are all guys whose' contracts are up this year. Next off-season Allen will also (hopefully) be in for a big payday as well, so it will be hard to re-sign Shatty if he keeps it up the way he has been, which, like I said, was that of a Number One D-man last year.

I agree that The Blues have tonnes of young talent on defence. But none of them will be ready to take over the power play and provide the offence Shattenkirk does, for at least a couple more years. If I were Armstrong, I'd try to keep Backes with an end-of-career home discount contract, and also keep Shatrtenkirk, by trading away Bouwmeester, Gunnarsson, Ott and Berglund for draft choices and/or young prospects, over the next few years, and, perhaps Elliott, IF Copley or Binnington excel enough to risk that step. Fabbri, Parayko, Edmundson and Barbashev coming in with rookie contracts, replacing those 4, would save a bunch of money. I think it can be done.

I just don't see another NHL team trading a young, extremely talented centre prospect to The Blues in a trade for Shattenkirk (like the Seguin deal). That means that The Blues CAN'T get back value given up in Shattenkirk. He's too good an offensive weapon to give up, unless one even better comes back in the deal. I just don't see that happening, especially one with significantly lower contract cost (needed, as the original reason for the trade).

The way I see things is that we're in a great position going into this trade deadline. I can't see us dealing Shattenkirk this year, and hope we can hang onto him long term, but yes that's dicey pending what happens with Backes. But I love that we have a glut of developing puck movers to use as trade bait around the deadline. I don't know the prospects as well as some on this board, but Schmaltz Vanelli and Dunn seem live very similar types and would seem to me to have good trade value this March.

We do have a ton of defensive talent in the pipeline, but as has been pointed out before, that talent seems to be out of balance on the right side. Not to discount guys like Edmundson, Walman, others? One or more of these prospects will almost be have to be traded to fill a need somewhere else, whether it's RD for LD or something else.

Robb_K wrote:

Oates2Hullie450 wrote: On a side note, it's starting to make more sense to me that the Blues may shop Shattenkirk before his contract is up, seeing to how they have so many key guys with expiring contracts in the coming few seasons. Army has said he would like to see Backes retire a Blue, Schwartz is a guy I can see having a 30 goal, 70 point year this year, if I'm not mistaken Brouwers' contract is up after this year, and those are all guys whose' contracts are up this year. Next off-season Allen will also (hopefully) be in for a big payday as well, so it will be hard to re-sign Shatty if he keeps it up the way he has been, which, like I said, was that of a Number One D-man last year.

I agree that The Blues have tonnes of young talent on defence. But none of them will be ready to take over the power play and provide the offence Shattenkirk does, for at least a couple more years. If I were Armstrong, I'd try to keep Backes with an end-of-career home discount contract, and also keep Shatrtenkirk, by trading away Bouwmeester, Gunnarsson, Ott and Berglund for draft choices and/or young prospects, over the next few years, and, perhaps Elliott, IF Copley or Binnington excel enough to risk that step. Fabbri, Parayko, Edmundson and Barbashev coming in with rookie contracts, replacing those 4, would save a bunch of money. I think it can be done.

I just don't see another NHL team trading a young, extremely talented centre prospect to The Blues in a trade for Shattenkirk (like the Seguin deal). That means that The Blues CAN'T get back value given up in Shattenkirk. He's too good an offensive weapon to give up, unless one even better comes back in the deal. I just don't see that happening, especially one with significantly lower contract cost (needed, as the original reason for the trade).

I largely agree here, my only concern is that I don't see us getting a trade partner for J-Bo. I can't see Ott or Berglund stating with the team past next off-season when Shattys contract is up either. Not to mention Schmaltz, Vanelli, Parayko are all right handers just like Petro and Shatty both are. And while no none of the prospects would be able to come in and play at the level of a top-four defenseman or fill a void Shattenkirk would leave immediately, but there are a few of those guys who are farter ahead of the pack then others, so hey, who knows? Time will tell, but as I said I really like the position we're in there.

If The Blues need help near playoff time, they could trade Vanelli, especially if he's played well so far this season, continuously improving his defence. Maybe he and Pääjärvi can be traded to a team short on young, talented prospects? Or, if Fabbri is playing very well, and if Rattie is playing well enough for an extended trial with The Blues, Berglund could be traded off, as well, or instead of a forward with significantly lower salary cap hit. Perhaps Berglund's and Vanelli's value can be worth enough to return a couple high 2nd rounders?

If approaching the trade deadline, a contending team loses a 1st shift defenceman, AND Bouwmeester's healthy status has him skating and playing like he did 2 years ago, The Blues may find a taker for Bouwmeester and his salary, (even if they have to take back some salary and waive that extra player).

I still think the ideal solution is to move Petro, Shatty or one of the RHD prospects to the left side. That makes JBO expendable, and he should go (almost regardless of the return) rather than trading Shatty and keeping JBo.

Plan B, in my mind, would be to trade one of the RHD prospects (I'd say Schmaltz at this point) for a comparably developed, comparable ceiling LHD to balance out the prospect pool. Ultimately, that player and Dunn would be our Top 4 LHD of the future.

Plan C, in my mind, would be to trade Shatty and hope that JBo stays at a Top 4 level until the end of his deal. To me, the ideal return for Shatty in that scenario would either be a first line forward (I'm willing to take a winger) or a package of a 5-10 overall pick and a serviceable #4D.

What if Shatty is playing better than Petro again this year?

You would get a better return for Petro and more cap relief.

Of course I wouldn't take less than Taylor Hall or Eichel.

So I guess that deal isn't getting done.

39hurricane wrote:What if Shatty is playing better than Petro again this year?

You would get a better return for Petro and more cap relief.

Of course I wouldn't take less than Taylor Hall or Eichel.

So I guess that deal isn't getting done.

If Shatty outplays Petro this year, why would Petro get more return and cap relief (long-term that is)? The way things are right now and in light of the EJ deal, I expect Shatty's next deal to be higher than Petro's is right now.

blueslifer wrote:

39hurricane wrote:What if Shatty is playing better than Petro again this year?

You would get a better return for Petro and more cap relief.

Of course I wouldn't take less than Taylor Hall or Eichel.

So I guess that deal isn't getting done.

If Shatty outplays Petro this year, why would Petro get more return and cap relief (long-term that is)? The way things are right now and in light of the EJ deal, I expect Shatty's next deal to be higher than Petro's is right now.

If you are correct, and that scenario plays out just as described, we're screwed.

39hurricane wrote:

blueslifer wrote:

39hurricane wrote:What if Shatty is playing better than Petro again this year?

You would get a better return for Petro and more cap relief.

Of course I wouldn't take less than Taylor Hall or Eichel.

So I guess that deal isn't getting done.

If Shatty outplays Petro this year, why would Petro get more return and cap relief (long-term that is)? The way things are right now and in light of the EJ deal, I expect Shatty's next deal to be higher than Petro's is right now.

If you are correct, and that scenario plays out just as described, we're screwed.

We should end up in pretty good shape I think. There are so many decent prospects there's bound to be someone who can play in one of the top 2 pairings for much less salary. Parayko could potentially replace one of them as soon as next year. Edmundson could potentially replace JBo or Gunnar by next year.

I agree with you about October, I always find myself singing that Green Day tune in my head "Wake Me Up When September Ends" this time of year.

With Lindbohm, Parayko and Edmundson coming in with low salaries, Bouwmeester and Gunnerson can be traded, and Berglund and Ott can be, as Fabbri and Rattie will bring in rookie salaries. Perhaps those happenings can save enough money to keep both Shattenkirk and re-sign Backes to a home discount deal? I want to keep both, and still get The Blues younger and faster.

Edmundson and Lindbolm scored goals Thurs night. I see this Blues team getting more goals from the Defense. With Bortuzzo injured Parayko is getting to show his game. Only been two games but he is making his mark.

Dunn with a goal and an assist, +4 in his first game on the road with Niagra.

Stlweir wrote:Dunn with a goal and an assist, +4 in his first game on the road with Niagara.

He should be one of the very best defencemen in The OHL this season.

I havent been able to see parayko play yet. But everyone including coaches seems to be going nuts over this guy. do you think its possible with bortuzzo having injury atm that maybe Parayko gets a 9 game try out?

Unfathomable wrote:I havent been able to see parayko play yet. But everyone including coaches seems to be going nuts over this guy. do you think its possible with bortuzzo having injury atm that maybe Parayko gets a 9 game try out?

The 9 game tryout only applies to Jr CHL players and basically just allows a team to test out a teenage player for 9 games and in the event they send him back to his Jr team before he plays his 10th game, then his contract slides. ie. It doesn't count as the first season of his contract.

This will be Parayko's first year of his contract no matter what.

As for if he'll make the team (probably what you're really getting at), maybe. He's doing very well but there just isn't really room for him with everyone healthy. Borts is dealing with a minor lower body injury but he's practiced fine the past 3 days so unless he reaggravates his injury, my guess is that Borts is our 3rd pairing RD and Parayko starts the season with the Wolves. My guess is that Parayko ends up spending about half of this season with the Blues though.