Over his last 7 games he has 0 points and is a minus 9

I remember being dumb and thinking the only thing holding him back was Hitch. Turns out, Hitch may have been the only thing making him successful.

I think it's time to trade him to the highest bidder. It may come back to bite them in the ass, but I just don't see him being the guy to lead a team to a Stanley Cup. Great 3rd option for a team with a star or two already well established and in place. But he's not THE guy, which is what this franchise needs him to be.

Agree

Hire Q and let him decide if he wants to keep him or not.

Can't see how Army is going to trade Tarasenko. It would turn the Blues into a true rebuild stage, not too mention he's probably the face of the franchise and it would further erode the attendance. Still only 27. Army needs to kick it in gear and shed some other dead weight, get some add'l picks and prospects and inject some new blood into this lineup. Make the team at least more interesting to watch for the fans and work towards securing that top 5 pick next June.

Maybe Tanks numbers are dropping but this team sucks. This is all on Army, he needs to man up and start making some moves.

He's a disaster. And his numbers are going down hill. Get what you can for him.

Somebody will give up some picks and prospects closer to the deadline.

If we had a post-lockout competent GM that new how to build a faster team with an up-tempo style offensive coach that could use tank's assets proficiently, i think we would see a higher point total and happier player all around.

This pre-lockout team and hockey style has got to go and it starts with ARMY

Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:37 am If we had a post-lockout competent GM that new how to build a faster team with an up-tempo style offensive coach that could use tank's assets proficiently, i think we would see a higher point total and happier player all around.

This pre-lockout team and hockey style has got to go and it starts with ARMY

This is more to the point and why you don't trade Tarasenko and likely don't trade Pietrangelo. Armstrong surrounded these guys with players that worked for Hitch's older style of play. It doesn't work anymore because the NHL has changed. You need a GM and coach who can build a more skilled, up tempo team. If Q isn't the guy, then you have to start looking at the unknown. It's time to stop recycling NHL coaches and that begins with Armstrong. I do and don't have faith that Armstrong's the guy to rebuild this team the right way. I think when he let Backes, Brouwer, Ott, Reaves, etc all start to leave, he had a clear mission to build this team into a faster, more skill based team. The problem was, he didn't bring in a coach or enough players to complete that transition and he's wasting the prime years of some very skilled players that under the right circumstances, could be one of the best teams in the league. You know why it worked well under Hitch, because there was enough balance between the brute force and skill for Hitch hockey to win. Once you lost the balance, Hitch and Yeo, who coach VERY similarly, didn't know what to do or how to change it. Armstrong tried to change that a bit with bringing in Maroon and calling up Nolan but it hasn't really helped.

The other issue is the culture of the team. It's quickly going to a losing culture where as I think under Hitch, it was closer to a winning culture. There is something definitely toxic around this team and I don't think any one can deny it anymore. I truthfully don't believe Tarasenko is part of that problem. The young guys who seem to keep taking it on the chin with getting sent down or benched when they screw up aren't at fault either and that NEEDS to stop. I get that if a young player has a bad game, they need to be taught a lesson but to bench or send him down is getting ridiculous. I applaud Berube for sitting Perron after he took a bunch of dumb penalties, but why hasn't Steen sat under Yeo or Berube? He's been TERRIBLE at times. Bortuzzo got a nice contract extension recently but he's been god awful at different points. Many of the veterans on this team have had their lapses but many of them haven't sat including Tarasenko. There is a huge culture issue around this team and it does start with Army but the last thing that you do if you're Armstrong is trade Tarasenko. Watch a different coach and some new blood breathe life back into 91. Watch it breathe life back into 27.

I don't know who the new coach should be but I think Armstrong needs to go find the guy that has a system that fits the players Armstrong has rather than forcing the players to play a system that doesn't match their skill sets.

I don't think Armstrong has the vision to build a winner of his own. He is nothing more than a copycat. All he does is try to copy teams that are winning each season. When big and tough was in vogue he attempted to build a big and tough team, but it was too late. When speed and skill came into vogue he tried to change the team into a speed and skill team. Since he can't create a winning team or predict what the future trend will be, he simply copies the current fad, which always leaves this team a step behind the best teams.

Not only that, but he thinks he can retool teams by telling the existing players they need to change their style. A few years back he kept saying our current roster needed to play tougher. Then when the fad changed he kept saying our current roster needed to play quicker. But most of the roster is made up of the exact same players. Players are what they are. You can't just tell them to change their style and expect it to happen.

In my opinion it is an exercise in futility to think Armstrong can build a Cup winning team. He simply doesn't have the vision or ability to make it happen. We need a GM who is a visionary, not one who is always a step behind.

Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:37 am If we had a post-lockout competent GM that new how to build a faster team with an up-tempo style offensive coach that could use tank's assets proficiently, i think we would see a higher point total and happier player all around.

This pre-lockout team and hockey style has got to go and it starts with ARMY

While uptempo is clearly the prevailing trend right now and isn't going away, I don't think you can ignore the 3 post lockout Cups won by LA and Boston with slower, "heavy" teams. Army is definitely guilty of getting caught between those two styles for sure though.

As for Tarasenko, I was like Wes, thinking that He was a lock to score 40 after Hitch left, and as good of a bet in the league to hit 50 that year. Oops. He is still absurdly talented, but for whatever reason just doesn't seem capable of making adjustments to his game. Everybody knows what he's going to do on the rush and on the PP. He'll take a transition pass along the boards, then take a couple strides before cutting to the middle for a shot. The league figured that out years ago. I think there's a good chance he hits 40 goals a couple more times in his career, but I'm fine if he gets shipped out.

barcthespark wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:52 am I don't think Armstrong has the vision to build a winner of his own. He simply doesn't have the vision or ability to make it happen. We need a GM who is a visionary, not one who is always a step behind.

Very true. I always felt he wasn't a real hockey guy. Roster construction is not his thing. He's an admin guy that runs his business with a set a management principals he believes in, but in terms of assessing hockey talent and putting the puzzle together, he is very poor. Always said his best move here was hiring Hitch and he rode on Hitch's back for years.

People speculating that Tarasenko's trying to play through the shoulder injury he had at the end of last season.

Could be possible. My opinion is that he's too heavy. He lost so much of his quickness bulking up. He never needed it. He's always had such a quick release.

BillP. wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:02 am

barcthespark wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:52 am I don't think Armstrong has the vision to build a winner of his own. He simply doesn't have the vision or ability to make it happen. We need a GM who is a visionary, not one who is always a step behind.

Very true. I always felt he wasn't a real hockey guy. Roster construction is not his thing. He's an admin guy that runs his business with a set a management principals he believes in, but in terms of assessing hockey talent and putting the puzzle together, he is very poor. Always said his best move here was hiring Hitch and he rode on Hitch's back for years.

Think Tampa would trade Victor Hedmann for Tank?

Southsidetony wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:40 am

BillP. wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:02 am

barcthespark wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:52 am I don't think Armstrong has the vision to build a winner of his own. He simply doesn't have the vision or ability to make it happen. We need a GM who is a visionary, not one who is always a step behind.

Very true. I always felt he wasn't a real hockey guy. Roster construction is not his thing. He's an admin guy that runs his business with a set a management principals he believes in, but in terms of assessing hockey talent and putting the puzzle together, he is very poor. Always said his best move here was hiring Hitch and he rode on Hitch's back for years.

Think Tampa would trade Victor Hedmann for Tank?

I don't think he would do it. They have enough scoring. Hedman might be the best D-man in the game.

BillP wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:49 pm Can't see how Army is going to trade Tarasenko. It would turn the Blues into a true rebuild stage, not too mention he's probably the face of the franchise and it would further erode the attendance. Still only 27. Army needs to kick it in gear and shed some other dead weight, get some add'l picks and prospects and inject some new blood into this lineup. Make the team at least more interesting to watch for the fans and work towards securing that top 5 pick next June.

Maybe Tanks numbers are dropping but this team sucks. This is all on Army, he needs to man up and start making some moves.

The Blues need to go into a true rebuild stage, and Armstrong is among the dead weight that needs to be shed. Hopefully Stillman brings in management that has a good feel for what they have in Tarasenko and that can make a well-informed decision on whether to trade or salvage.

insideout wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:09 am

BillP wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:49 pm Can't see how Army is going to trade Tarasenko. It would turn the Blues into a true rebuild stage, not too mention he's probably the face of the franchise and it would further erode the attendance. Still only 27. Army needs to kick it in gear and shed some other dead weight, get some add'l picks and prospects and inject some new blood into this lineup. Make the team at least more interesting to watch for the fans and work towards securing that top 5 pick next June.

Maybe Tanks numbers are dropping but this team sucks. This is all on Army, he needs to man up and start making some moves.

The Blues need to go into a true rebuild stage, and Armstrong is among the dead weight that needs to be shed. Hopefully Stillman brings in management that has a good feel for what they have in Tarasenko and that can make a well-informed decision on whether to trade or salvage.

Armstrong isn't getting fired for at least two years. There is no way Stillman could afford to pay him. He just signed a new extension as well. He was lauded for his roster changes this off-season by many across hockey. Coaching was an issue but it wasn't the deep underlying issue. If the Blues miss the playoffs this season and don't start out well next, then I think you could possibly hear some rumbling of Armstrong getting fired.

Tarasenko and Petro, two of a kind. They are both passengers, not drivers. Trade them while you can still get something for them.

wannabebluesplayer wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:14 am

insideout wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:09 am

BillP wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:49 pm Can't see how Army is going to trade Tarasenko. It would turn the Blues into a true rebuild stage, not too mention he's probably the face of the franchise and it would further erode the attendance. Still only 27. Army needs to kick it in gear and shed some other dead weight, get some add'l picks and prospects and inject some new blood into this lineup. Make the team at least more interesting to watch for the fans and work towards securing that top 5 pick next June.

Maybe Tanks numbers are dropping but this team sucks. This is all on Army, he needs to man up and start making some moves.

The Blues need to go into a true rebuild stage, and Armstrong is among the dead weight that needs to be shed. Hopefully Stillman brings in management that has a good feel for what they have in Tarasenko and that can make a well-informed decision on whether to trade or salvage.

Armstrong isn't getting fired for at least two years. There is no way Stillman could afford to pay him. He just signed a new extension as well. He was lauded for his roster changes this off-season by many across hockey. Coaching was an issue but it wasn't the deep underlying issue. If the Blues miss the playoffs this season and don't start out well next, then I think you could possibly hear some rumbling of Armstrong getting fired.

It seems reasonable to expect that Armstrong is going nowhere given that he signed an extension around a year ago. I can't argue with that, and I concede that my bring-in-new-management suggestion is probably wishful thinking. Curious though.... Since you're able to speak with such certainty as to what Stillman can and cannot afford, I assume you're privy to the organization's financial statements and/or that you've run a comparative analysis of projections for the with-Armstrong and without-Armstrong scenarios, yes?

insideout wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:38 am

wannabebluesplayer wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:14 am

insideout wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:09 am

The Blues need to go into a true rebuild stage, and Armstrong is among the dead weight that needs to be shed. Hopefully Stillman brings in management that has a good feel for what they have in Tarasenko and that can make a well-informed decision on whether to trade or salvage.

Armstrong isn't getting fired for at least two years. There is no way Stillman could afford to pay him. He just signed a new extension as well. He was lauded for his roster changes this off-season by many across hockey. Coaching was an issue but it wasn't the deep underlying issue. If the Blues miss the playoffs this season and don't start out well next, then I think you could possibly hear some rumbling of Armstrong getting fired.

It seems reasonable to expect that Armstrong is going nowhere given that he signed an extension around a year ago. I can't argue with that, and I concede that my bring-in-new-management suggestion is probably wishful thinking. Curious though.... Since you're able to speak with such certainty as to what Stillman can and cannot afford, I assume you're privy to the organization's financial statements and/or that you've run a comparative analysis of projections for the with-Armstrong and without-Armstrong scenarios, yes?

You caught me, I'm the CFO. In all seriousness, I shouldn't have been so definitive. I'm basing it more off my belief that they've spent to the cap and, although some in the ownership group have some deep pockets, I don't see them wanting to pay Armstrong 3 years of salary on top of paying Yeo for another year to not work for them. I could be wrong and you could be right so I apologize for being so definitive.

It’s interesting that most, if not all of us, were singing the praises of the roster Army built this off-season and now he’s incapable of doing such in those same minds.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:46 am It’s interesting that most, if not all of us, were singing the praises of the roster Army built this off-season and now he’s incapable of doing such in those same minds.

Great at trades
Terrible at contracts
Laughably miserable at assessing goalie talent.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:46 am It’s interesting that most, if not all of us, were singing the praises of the roster Army built this off-season and now he’s incapable of doing such in those same minds.

Yeah, I think this is a fair point, Dread. NO ONE saw this train wreck coming. So what is the problem? Were all of us, including Armstrong, dead wrong about the talent on this team? Has the coaching been that poor?

I honestly feel like this disaster has been a series of mini-disasters that have snowballed into what we see today.

- A change in defensive scheme
- Allen's poor numbers at the start
- J-Bo's poor play at the start
- Injuries to Petro, Fabs, Schwartz, Steen, Gunnar, Bortz
- CJ's poor play almost the entire year
- The additions of Maroon/Bozak have not been effective
- Thomas and Kyrou, who everyone was screaming for to be in the lineup, have not been effective

I'm sure I am missing others. I know I am in the minority on this, but I feel like if they could do a redo on this season, and if they could have just snuck out a couple of wins early to get the ball rolling, their record would be much better. From the get-go, what could go wrong went wrong. If Allen steals a game, if the team doesn't force J-Bo in when he clearly wasn't healthy, if Maroon got a couple bounces to find some confidence, the season may have snowballed in a different direction instead of down the toilet.

MattyIce wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:06 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:46 am It’s interesting that most, if not all of us, were singing the praises of the roster Army built this off-season and now he’s incapable of doing such in those same minds.

Yeah, I think this is a fair point, Dread. NO ONE saw this train wreck coming. So what is the problem? Were all of us, including Armstrong, dead wrong about the talent on this team? Has the coaching been that poor?

I honestly feel like this disaster has been a series of mini-disasters that have snowballed into what we see today.

- A change in defensive scheme
- Allen's poor numbers at the start
- J-Bo's poor play at the start
- Injuries to Petro, Fabs, Schwartz, Steen, Gunnar, Bortz
- CJ's poor play almost the entire year
- The additions of Maroon/Bozak have not been effective
- Thomas and Kyrou, who everyone was screaming for to be in the lineup, have not been effective

I'm sure I am missing others. I know I am in the minority on this, but I feel like if they could do a redo on this season, and if they could have just snuck out a couple of wins early to get the ball rolling, their record would be much better. From the get-go, what could go wrong went wrong. If Allen steals a game, if the team doesn't force J-Bo in when he clearly wasn't healthy, if Maroon got a couple bounces to find some confidence, the season may have snowballed in a different direction instead of down the toilet.

Yes, blown 3rd period leads in 3 of the first 5 games, plus the Parayko give away in a tie game Montreal with less than 10 seconds left. That's 5-6 points they left on the table in the first 6 games. I don't think they'd be world beaters had they won early, but they certainly wouldn't be looking at a top 5 pick. There was some bad luck, but plenty of well earned blame to go around.

The theme for this season's team is Fragile. Every time something goes wrong they go into the fetal position instead of fighting through it.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:46 am It’s interesting that most, if not all of us, were singing the praises of the roster Army built this off-season and now he’s incapable of doing such in those same minds.

Some have even gone so far as to question Army's manhood... instead of questioning the manhood of those players who are stealing their checks as they live the country-club life. Sometimes this shit gets to be just like the asylum.

Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:54 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:46 am It’s interesting that most, if not all of us, were singing the praises of the roster Army built this off-season and now he’s incapable of doing such in those same minds.

Great at trades
Terrible at contracts
Laughably miserable at assessing goalie talent.

Hard to argue with that. I think the biggest issue this franchise has had is that Army decided to marry it to Allen with that 4 year contract. He gambled and lost on that.