Given the performance of the last three games, do you think it's a matter of not executing the system that was working anymore, or have other teams come up with ways to adapt to the Blues' system and find the flaws in it?

RAFritchey wrote:Given the performance of the last three games, do you think it's a matter of not executing the system that was working anymore, or have other teams come up with ways to adapt to the Blues' system and find the flaws in it?

Two guys can't carry the whole load scoring.

All of the above, plus a bit of complacency from riding the crest of success. That's why these early season streaks are not always a true measure of your hockey club. They've got to get back to doing some hard work, and get some scoring contribution from the third line.

Goaltending plays a part too. This team needs to be functioning at near perfection in most areas to win.

CaptSMRT wrote:

RAFritchey wrote:Given the performance of the last three games, do you think it's a matter of not executing the system that was working anymore, or have other teams come up with ways to adapt to the Blues' system and find the flaws in it?

Two guys can't carry the whole load scoring.

This 100%. I think the Fabbri injury could be a real roadblock to this team being a true contender. If Fabbs was in there (and once Bergy comes back)the second and third lines would be much more complete. I still think this team is a top 6 forward away from being elite.
That being said, they still should be one of the top teams in the West.

Man, line 3 is atrocious, and I don't have a lot of faith that Berglund and Fabbri would be the tipping point for line 3.

But, I'm not pro GM, just sharing an opinion.

I really hope our youngsters can really step up next year.

Cotton McKnight wrote:Man, line 3 is atrocious, and I don't have a lot of faith that Berglund and Fabbri would be the tipping point for line 3.

But, I'm not pro GM, just sharing an opinion.

I really hope our youngsters can really step up next year.

Those two players would be a huge improvement over Starkist, Jaskin, and whoever.

The problem is that we have one line and then we have Stastny and Steen who are average to below average. the real problem is forward slots 6-12.....pretty much complete trash. Oh and throw in the fact that Parayko has pretty much sucked ass lately. The great start was amazing but they were doing it with smoke and mirrors.

MattyIce wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:

RAFritchey wrote:Given the performance of the last three games, do you think it's a matter of not executing the system that was working anymore, or have other teams come up with ways to adapt to the Blues' system and find the flaws in it?

Two guys can't carry the whole load scoring.

This 100%. I think the Fabbri injury could be a real roadblock to this team being a true contender. If Fabbs was in there (and once Bergy comes back)the second and third lines would be much more complete. I still think this team is a top 6 forward away from being elite.
That being said, they still should be one of the top teams in the West.

I think this team is 3 forwards away from being a real cup contender.

I ain't scared. Normal ebb and flow of the season. Now, if we start losing more than winning, then I may refresh my outlook, but so far we've had two 2 game losing streaks. We are first in the WC. We have been getting very good goaltending overall, good team D most nights, and scoring from our top line and defensive core. I don't think it is anything anyone else is doing to adjust to us, I think it is the players not staying focused the last 3 games and also not moving their feet enough.

We've all noticed that when this team is moving fast, moving the puck with certainty, that they are unstoppable and eat up a shitload of zone time. But when they think too much, get sloppy with their transition game (glad others are noticing Parayko's subpar play...he is a missing link lately), then we are going to struggle. Got to get back to decisive moving the puck hockey.

Yall are over analyzing.

Allen has hot streaks and cold streaks. Always has.

He will get past this hump and the team will go back to being a top 3 team

NHLTIM wrote:

MattyIce wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:

Two guys can't carry the whole load scoring.

This 100%. I think the Fabbri injury could be a real roadblock to this team being a true contender. If Fabbs was in there (and once Bergy comes back)the second and third lines would be much more complete. I still think this team is a top 6 forward away from being elite.
That being said, they still should be one of the top teams in the West.

I think this team is 3 forwards away from being a real cup contender.

Backes...Brouwer...and Fabbri...a team with those guys on it at the same time is going places.

Backes is hurt. Brouwer is awful now. Fabbri will hopefully come back and still reach his full potential, but I'm not holding my breath. I think Fabbri, Steen, and Berglund all being here from the get go would have had a much better lineup. Barbashev not living up to his billing from last year also hurt. The team is going through a down turn after riding a HUGE high at the start of the season. Lets get Berglund and Barbashev back, the defense and decisions not going into the dumpster, and see where they're at.

NHLTIM wrote:

MattyIce wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:

Two guys can't carry the whole load scoring.

This 100%. I think the Fabbri injury could be a real roadblock to this team being a true contender. If Fabbs was in there (and once Bergy comes back)the second and third lines would be much more complete. I still think this team is a top 6 forward away from being elite.
That being said, they still should be one of the top teams in the West.

I think this team is 3 forwards away from being a real cup contender.

Three forwards would be asking a lot to say the least depending on what you are wanting. They already have Tank, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Stastny giving them an above average top 6 with one of the best defenses in the league. Adding just one more player for secondary scoring would do the trick. Three isn't even feasible unless you are talking about bottom 6 players

MattyIce wrote:

NHLTIM wrote:

MattyIce wrote:
This 100%. I think the Fabbri injury could be a real roadblock to this team being a true contender. If Fabbs was in there (and once Bergy comes back)the second and third lines would be much more complete. I still think this team is a top 6 forward away from being elite.
That being said, they still should be one of the top teams in the West.

I think this team is 3 forwards away from being a real cup contender.

Three forwards would be asking a lot to say the least depending on what you are wanting. They already have Tank, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Stastny giving them an above average top 6 with one of the best defenses in the league. Adding just one more player for secondary scoring would do the trick. Three isn't even feasible unless you are talking about bottom 6 players

Really it's not that unrealistic. You have Berglund and Sanford likely returning, and then you potentially have Blais or Kostin sticking around later in the season. That's 3 forwards who present an upgrade to the roster internally without even doing a trade. And yes you would likely consider all of those guys bottom 6 players but that balances the offense enough to take pressure off the top 6. Not saying it will play out like that, but it's a realistic possibility.

RAFritchey wrote:Given the performance of the last three games, do you think it's a matter of not executing the system that was working anymore, or have other teams come up with ways to adapt to the Blues' system and find the flaws in it?

Commitment / Execution of the system, in my opinion. The team has still created lots of chances the last two games, we've just given up way more grade A opportunities to the opponents. That tells me that everyone is cheating a little bit, and not fully bought in. Not a big surprise after such a good start.

blueslifer wrote:

MattyIce wrote:

NHLTIM wrote:
I think this team is 3 forwards away from being a real cup contender.

Three forwards would be asking a lot to say the least depending on what you are wanting. They already have Tank, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Stastny giving them an above average top 6 with one of the best defenses in the league. Adding just one more player for secondary scoring would do the trick. Three isn't even feasible unless you are talking about bottom 6 players

Really it's not that unrealistic. You have Berglund and Sanford likely returning, and then you potentially have Blais or Kostin sticking around later in the season. That's 3 forwards who present an upgrade to the roster internally without even doing a trade. And yes you would likely consider all of those guys bottom 6 players but that balances the offense enough to take pressure off the top 6. Not saying it will play out like that, but it's a realistic possibility.

When I said they were a one top 6 forward away, I was including other players that are within the organization already. I meant that if they add one top 6, they have the pieces to win... so I agree in away I guess

MattyIce wrote:

blueslifer wrote:

MattyIce wrote:
Three forwards would be asking a lot to say the least depending on what you are wanting. They already have Tank, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Stastny giving them an above average top 6 with one of the best defenses in the league. Adding just one more player for secondary scoring would do the trick. Three isn't even feasible unless you are talking about bottom 6 players

Really it's not that unrealistic. You have Berglund and Sanford likely returning, and then you potentially have Blais or Kostin sticking around later in the season. That's 3 forwards who present an upgrade to the roster internally without even doing a trade. And yes you would likely consider all of those guys bottom 6 players but that balances the offense enough to take pressure off the top 6. Not saying it will play out like that, but it's a realistic possibility.

When I said they were a one top 6 forward away, I was including other players that are within the organization already. I meant that if they add one top 6, they have the pieces to win... so I agree in away I guess

Gotcha. I agree with the sentiment they need more supplemental scoring. But I guess my feeling is that could be accomplished one of two ways - either by adding another top 6 forward, or by bolstering the scoring depth across the third and fourth lines. I think we can all agree our third line sucks, and our fourth line could use improvement as well. In the playoffs it seems like it's always those third and fourth line players that make the difference, and right now we don't have that.

I think early on, we were giving up a LOT of breakaways and odd-man rushes against while we were focusing on offense, but able to recover from it, either due to goaltending, or limiting mistakes. I think our system now is a high risk-high reward system, and the limitations of it may be showing up. We'll see, though.

RAFritchey wrote:I think early on, we were giving up a LOT of breakaways and odd-man rushes against while we were focusing on offense, but able to recover from it, either due to goaltending, or limiting mistakes. I think our system now is a high risk-high reward system, and the limitations of it may be showing up. We'll see, though.

I've always liked the 5-man unit system when a team has the personnel to pull it off. I would say it can be defended against successfully by stretching the 5-man unit out. I'm not sure if we're losing because of the limits of the system, or if it's just a stretch of mistakes, sloppy defensive play, and questionable goaltending. Like you said, we will see.

MattyIce wrote:

NHLTIM wrote:

MattyIce wrote:
This 100%. I think the Fabbri injury could be a real roadblock to this team being a true contender. If Fabbs was in there (and once Bergy comes back)the second and third lines would be much more complete. I still think this team is a top 6 forward away from being elite.
That being said, they still should be one of the top teams in the West.

I think this team is 3 forwards away from being a real cup contender.

Three forwards would be asking a lot to say the least depending on what you are wanting. They already have Tank, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Stastny giving them an above average top 6 with one of the best defenses in the league. Adding just one more player for secondary scoring would do the trick. Three isn't even feasible unless you are talking about bottom 6 players

1 top 6 player and 2 bottom 6 forwards. Read my post...I basically said our bottom 6 is complete trash. That bottom 6 needs to be upgraded in the worst way.

wannabebluesplayer wrote:Backes is hurt. Brouwer is awful now. Fabbri will hopefully come back and still reach his full potential, but I'm not holding my breath. I think Fabbri, Steen, and Berglund all being here from the get go would have had a much better lineup. Barbashev not living up to his billing from last year also hurt. The team is going through a down turn after riding a HUGE high at the start of the season. Lets get Berglund and Barbashev back, the defense and decisions not going into the dumpster, and see where they're at.

I believe the point is...the Blues lost three players of a certain skill level, and have done little to nothing to replace them.

CaptSMRT wrote:

wannabebluesplayer wrote:Backes is hurt. Brouwer is awful now. Fabbri will hopefully come back and still reach his full potential, but I'm not holding my breath. I think Fabbri, Steen, and Berglund all being here from the get go would have had a much better lineup. Barbashev not living up to his billing from last year also hurt. The team is going through a down turn after riding a HUGE high at the start of the season. Lets get Berglund and Barbashev back, the defense and decisions not going into the dumpster, and see where they're at.

I believe the point is...the Blues lost three players of a certain skill level, and have done little to nothing to replace them.

I disagree. He's different type of player, but Schenn replaces a lot of the 'skill level' that Backes had, and Sanford could still easily be a Brouwer-type player, at least in terms of skill-level (teens in goals and assists, strong physical play), but with both Fabbri and Sanford going down at the beginning of the season, there hasn't been much time to react. Do we replace them by trading off prospects for established players? Put our prospects in a 'sink or swim' situation? Mark time until Berglund and, hopefully, Sanford come back? As long as we're still winning games, we can afford to be patient, IMHO.

RAFritchey wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:

wannabebluesplayer wrote:Backes is hurt. Brouwer is awful now. Fabbri will hopefully come back and still reach his full potential, but I'm not holding my breath. I think Fabbri, Steen, and Berglund all being here from the get go would have had a much better lineup. Barbashev not living up to his billing from last year also hurt. The team is going through a down turn after riding a HUGE high at the start of the season. Lets get Berglund and Barbashev back, the defense and decisions not going into the dumpster, and see where they're at.

I believe the point is...the Blues lost three players of a certain skill level, and have done little to nothing to replace them.

I disagree. He's different type of player, but Schenn replaces a lot of the 'skill level' that Backes had, and Sanford could still easily be a Brouwer-type player, at least in terms of skill-level (teens in goals and assists, strong physical play), but with both Fabbri and Sanford going down at the beginning of the season, there hasn't been much time to react. Do we replace them by trading off prospects for established players? Put our prospects in a 'sink or swim' situation? Mark time until Berglund and, hopefully, Sanford come back? As long as we're still winning games, we can afford to be patient, IMHO.

The Blues needed to replace Backe's talent in addition to Schenn.

NHLTIM wrote:

MattyIce wrote:

NHLTIM wrote:
I think this team is 3 forwards away from being a real cup contender.

Three forwards would be asking a lot to say the least depending on what you are wanting. They already have Tank, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Stastny giving them an above average top 6 with one of the best defenses in the league. Adding just one more player for secondary scoring would do the trick. Three isn't even feasible unless you are talking about bottom 6 players

1 top 6 player and 2 bottom 6 forwards. Read my post...I basically said our bottom 6 is complete trash. That bottom 6 needs to be upgraded in the worst way.

Sorry Tim, I didn't see that you had two posts... I don't mind 2/3rds of the fourth line because at least Upshall and Brodz kill penalties. But, you are right, the rest is pretty terrible.

I realized that the third line is basically made up of players that the Blues were hoping they would catch lightning in a bottle with. Bennett, Jaskin, Sundq, and Paajarvi all show flashes of being able to be a quality player, but never put it together. At some point, it is time to move on from some of these projects.