There are 20 goalies who have started 25 games or more this season, Jake Allen being one of them.

Of those goalies, only Steve Mason and Cory Schneider have a higher GAA than Jake Allen and Allen is dead last among them in save%. 2.67 .903

Considering those numbers, it's actually kind of amazing this team is even in a playoff spot right now. The frustrating part is the Blues are kind of stuck with this goalie situation for the foreseeable future.

Maybe under Mike Yeo this team turns into a run and gun trying to win every game 4-3 kind of team.

I don't have the answers to the problems, but something has to be done about this goalie situation sooner rather than later, somehow.

I hope Army doesn't make a panic move, costing us a good player, or #1 draft choice. This team is going nowhere this year, regardless of who is in goal.

I still have high hopes for Allen but he's been simply not good enough in quite a few games this year.

When has goal tending not been a problem for the Blues?

barnburner wrote:I hope Army doesn't make a panic move, costing us a good player, or #1 draft choice. This team is going nowhere this year, regardless of who is in goal.

^^ this.

CaptSMRT wrote:When has goal tending not been a problem for the Blues?

Last year

I had to scroll down a ways to find this thread but here it is,shakey Jake reminds me of shit bag miller, letting in the obligatory softee to get the team playing on there collective heels. Then to the rest of the teams credit they tie it up for him to lose it anyway. Full disclosure- I'm an Elliott fan and think that trading him after the run in the playoffs was an astronomical mistake. Some think this is a rebuild year, I'm not one of them, this team is much better than shakey jake.

BlueinNy wrote:I had to scroll down a ways to find this thread but here it is,shakey Jake reminds me of shit bag miller, letting in the obligatory softee to get the team playing on there collective heels. Then to the rest of the teams credit they tie it up for him to lose it anyway. Full disclosure- I'm an Elliott fan and think that trading him after the run in the playoffs was an astronomical mistake. Some think this is a rebuild year, I'm not one of them, this team is much better than shakey jake.

Million dollar talent with a ten cent head.

BlueinNy wrote:I had to scroll down a ways to find this thread but here it is,shakey Jake reminds me of shit bag miller, letting in the obligatory softee to get the team playing on there collective heels. Then to the rest of the teams credit they tie it up for him to lose it anyway. Full disclosure- I'm an Elliott fan and think that trading him after the run in the playoffs was an astronomical mistake. Some think this is a rebuild year, I'm not one of them, this team is much better than shakey jake.

I think it is a rebuild year. Problem is, Jake is here next year. He needs to get better. Our defense, specifically blow-meester also needs to learn to stop screening the goalie.

Ozzies09tc wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:When has goal tending not been a problem for the Blues?

Last year

The Hall/Plante years were positive, on the whole.

The Blues are dead last in the NHL in save% this year after finishing first last year.

The defense is exactly the same as it was last year, the difference is Elliott as the starter versus Allen as the starter.

Good thing Army rushed to lock him up. Paying and Praying seems to be the Army signing strategy.

I sure hope they give Binnington/Husso a shot in the future and don't just go with Allen just because. He hasn't earned it.

If Allen was part of a tandem that had the best Save %s last season, has a career Save % (even including this year) of .913 (which is what his season was in 14/15) and has 74 Wins in 120 games started...how much more does he need to do before earning a chance?

Allen busted his but in the AHL for 4 years, played in tandem with Elliott for another 2 years...that's 6 years, and he was touted as one of the best goalie prospects out there, and had the numbers to back it up. Just not sure how the spot was 'handed to him'?

Maturity can be gained, experience and coaching will help with some of the inconsistencies. But you cannot teach skill, and Jake has the skill to be a #1. I personally think he is right on track and will be fine. Hopefully the goalie killing Blues fans will let him grow before starting to crucify him, especially after only 40 games into his first season as a #1.

Edit; by the way, Jake had more starts last season, so I would say that made him the '#1' last year also, wouldn't it? And the team defense (which does include coaching, strategies, and forwards) is NOT the same.

JMC-STL wrote:

Ozzies09tc wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:When has goal tending not been a problem for the Blues?

Last year

The Hall/Plante years were positive, on the whole.

Best goaltending this franchise has ever had.

Liut and Fuhr were strong also.

Don't get me wrong I'm not an Allen hater, I wish him the absolute best, but my eyes tell me he's not a #1 yet. There is something in his head that is not right. So if I'm right, why for Fuck sake would you trade Moose unless this kid is ready. Makes me sick that Armstrong is so short sighted.

BlueinNy wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not an Allen hater, I wish him the absolute best, but my eyes tell me he's not a #1 yet. There is something in his head that is not right. So if I'm right, why for Fuck sake would you trade Moose unless this kid is ready. Makes me sick that Armstrong is so short sighted.

It all goes back to this lame duck coach situation...Hitch told Moose that he'd be allowed to compete for the starting job again, after he nearly back-stopped them to the SCF. So he went to Army and asked for a trade...Army obliged. I blame Hitch for that...I blame Army and the Stillman Posse for Hitch, though. It's totally absurd to go on with this coaching situation as it is.

BlueinNy wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not an Allen hater, I wish him the absolute best, but my eyes tell me he's not a #1 yet. There is something in his head that is not right. So if I'm right, why for Fuck sake would you trade Moose unless this kid is ready. Makes me sick that Armstrong is so short sighted.

Regarding the trade, I think moving him at the draft was the right call. Elliott was in the same situation as Shattenkirk contract wise, and his value would never have been higher coming off that great playoff run. There was no real reason to expect Allen's game to slip this year, although the defense in front of him hasn't been as good for sure. The kid they got with the pick from the Elliott trade seems to be having a good year, but time will tell.

Hopefully Allen's uninspiring start to the year is a "goalies are weird" thing, and he turns it around. We'll see though.

Allen has the skill. He was a top goalie prospect his draft year. We've seen him play some great hockey, you can see the talent is there. I think that's why it's so frustrating watching him struggle. His position is TERRIBLE at times. His athleticism allows him to make some of the best desperation saves you'll see, but he's got this knack just to let in some pretty brutal goals.

Maybe it's youth and inexperience or maybe he's just one of those guys that'll never put it together and will be a very good #2 in this league for another decade.

I'm certainly not comfortable with him being the Blues only option right now, but with Hutton as the backup you have one of the worst 1-2 punches in hockey currently.

And on a brighter note, Ville Husso is 4-1 2.21 .925 since getting called up to Chicago.

BlueinNy wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not an Allen hater, I wish him the absolute best, but my eyes tell me he's not a #1 yet. There is something in his head that is not right. So if I'm right, why for Fuck sake would you trade Moose unless this kid is ready. Makes me sick that Armstrong is so short sighted.

Maybe in time Allen will develop the consistency needed, but it doesn't look like it's going to be this year. Telling Elliott that he would have to compete for the starting job was stupid. All they had to do was leave Elliott as the starter, and then if Allen happened to outperform Ells, make the switch. Instead, they pissed Ells off. He demands a trade, (rightfully so) and we are left with a guy that's not ready for prime time.

Ummm, Brian Elliott currently has an .894 SV% in 19 games with Calgary and is 8-9-0-1. And Calgary's defense doesn't exactly suck, either.

RAFritchey wrote:Ummm, Brian Elliott currently has an .894 SV% in 19 games with Calgary and is 8-9-0-1. And Calgary's defense doesn't exactly suck, either.

A lot of extra variables go into that. He was consistently very good for the Blues. Maybe he would have fallen way off, but history doesn't suggest it and he's rebounded really well in Calgary after a brutal start.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

RAFritchey wrote:Ummm, Brian Elliott currently has an .894 SV% in 19 games with Calgary and is 8-9-0-1. And Calgary's defense doesn't exactly suck, either.

A lot of extra variables go into that. He was consistently very good for the Blues. Maybe he would have fallen way off, but history doesn't suggest it and he's rebounded really well in Calgary after a brutal start.

I think we are forgetting that while it might not 'look' too different, we do have a different D coach and strategies, different forwards, including some young guys who are learning on the curve (Fabbri, Jaskin, and even Tarasenko and Schwartz) about how important it is to backcheck hard every shift, and yes, not having Elliott to push Allen may have an effect.

Would it have been nice to have Elliott here again? Perhaps, but if his goal was to be #1 alone, then would that have been 'fair' to Allen?

Again I ask; how much more did Allen have to do after 6 years pro to prove he could do it? I'm truly not being confrontational, I just don't understand why with goalies we have such a short leash as fans, but not with other positions. With D its like "it takes a long time to mature" and with Forwards its "they have to grow into their bodies, learn the system/linemates/etc."

If Allen doesn't improve by this time next year, I'd be concerned. But we are 40 games into his first year as the undisputed starter. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. And btw, I'm not Elliott basher, but last season when Allen went down w/ injury, that was the most consistent we'd ever seen BE play as the '#1'.

bradleygt89 wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

RAFritchey wrote:Ummm, Brian Elliott currently has an .894 SV% in 19 games with Calgary and is 8-9-0-1. And Calgary's defense doesn't exactly suck, either.

A lot of extra variables go into that. He was consistently very good for the Blues. Maybe he would have fallen way off, but history doesn't suggest it and he's rebounded really well in Calgary after a brutal start.

I think we are forgetting that while it might not 'look' too different, we do have a different D coach and strategies, different forwards, including some young guys who are learning on the curve (Fabbri, Jaskin, and even Tarasenko and Schwartz) about how important it is to backcheck hard every shift, and yes, not having Elliott to push Allen may have an effect.

Would it have been nice to have Elliott here again? Perhaps, but if his goal was to be #1 alone, then would that have been 'fair' to Allen?

Again I ask; how much more did Allen have to do after 6 years pro to prove he could do it? I'm truly not being confrontational, I just don't understand why with goalies we have such a short leash as fans, but not with other positions. With D its like "it takes a long time to mature" and with Forwards its "they have to grow into their bodies, learn the system/linemates/etc."

If Allen doesn't improve by this time next year, I'd be concerned. But we are 40 games into his first year as the undisputed starter. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. And btw, I'm not Elliott basher, but last season when Allen went down w/ injury, that was the most consistent we'd ever seen BE play as the '#1'.

I think the leash on position players is actually shorter than goalers. We aren't giving Lehtera 6 years to prove himself, the verdict is already out.

Additionally, I'm not sure which new forwards we are talking about? Perron is basically the only new forward. The defense is exactly the same. It's not like there was a huge roster overhaul.

I just don't think someone can say, well look at Elliott with the Flames so far and automatically conclude those would be his same stats here. They were never his stats here. I'd be interested to flip teams for Allen and Elliott and see their results.

I think the other issue is, Army didn't wait to decide Allen was his guy. He gave him the job and gave him the contract before Allen gave him the answers. The sense of "stuck" with him is frustrating for Stanley Cup starved fans.

I respect your opinion, just look at it differently.

New forwards are Perron, Jaskin/Yak, plus a lot more ice time for Fabbri. Love DP, and happy for Fabs success, but they are not the two way forwards Backes and Troy are.

I'm not worried about Allen's contract, and feel he earned the opportunity. I appreciate what Elliott did for our team, but he was heading to AHL fodder before he beat out Bishop for backup. And he, Elliott, had tons of chances to claim number one, but never did. He's playing in Calgary like he did with Colorado and Ottawa before.

LST, I just ain't as worried about goaltending as I am our D structure, including how skaters backcheck. Look at the penalty Schwartz took tonight. Sucked he got called for that trip, but that's the type of hustle we got to see. IMHO, when Blues skate hard, they make our goalies look great.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:And on a brighter note, Ville Husso is 4-1 2.21 .925 since getting called up to Chicago.

Actually he's 4-0, while his team is on an 8-game winning streak. In 3 of those games, he's faced less than 30 shots. Husso actually looked shaky in tonight's game, but his D-men were doing a great job of clearing the zone & starting transitions to take the pressure off him. With the current Blues' defensive play, Ville would be hanging out to dry.