Last night, Jaromir Jagr tied Mark Messier for 2nd all time in points with 1,887. That's amazing, especially considering he's spent time in the KHL.

If he plays another 10 years and averages 100 points a year, he will pass Gretzky to become #1 all time.

i don't like the guy at all, but it's pretty staggering to think what he could have accomplished had he not defeckted for three seasons.

T.C. wrote:i don't like the guy at all, but it's pretty staggering to think what he could have accomplished had he not defeckted for three seasons.

True, but he is still 5th all time in NHL games played and has played nearly 200 more than Gretzky. It's crazy that he's been in the NHL since 1990!

Hull, Oates, the Cavallini brothers, were playing for the Blues that season. Scott Stevens was still our captain.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

T.C. wrote:i don't like the guy at all, but it's pretty staggering to think what he could have accomplished had he not defeckted for three seasons.

True, but he is still 5th all time in NHL games played and has played nearly 200 more than Gretzky. It's crazy that he's been in the NHL since 1990!

Hull, Oates, the Cavallini brothers, were playing for the Blues that season. Scott Stevens was still our captain.

If he spent his career playing Hitch-hockey he'd have like 150 goals

Turk Sanderson wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

T.C. wrote:i don't like the guy at all, but it's pretty staggering to think what he could have accomplished had he not defeckted for three seasons.

True, but he is still 5th all time in NHL games played and has played nearly 200 more than Gretzky. It's crazy that he's been in the NHL since 1990!

Hull, Oates, the Cavallini brothers, were playing for the Blues that season. Scott Stevens was still our captain.

If he spent his career playing Hitch-hockey he'd have like 150 goals

And skate backwards with the best of em.

Jagr got his 1,857th point at the age of 44. Messier did it at 43 and Gretzky did it at 28. One of his countless stats that make you shake your head.

Beatoni12 wrote:Jagr got his 1,857th point at the age of 44. Messier did it at 43 and Gretzky did it at 28. One of his countless stats that make you shake your head.

Jeez. Thats crazy. The one that always gets me is that if you took away all of his goals, he would still be the all time leader in points with only assists. Crazy.

Beatoni12 wrote:Jagr got his 1,857th point at the age of 44. Messier did it at 43 and Gretzky did it at 28. One of his countless stats that make you shake your head.

Here's another one. Gretzky would still be the NHL's all time points leader if he never scored a single goal.

Gretzky holds or shares SIXTY NHL records. But maybe his most impressive record to me is that in his final season of Pee Wee hockey at age 10, he scored 378 goals in 85 games.

Wow, he's brought the mullet back.

Beatoni12 wrote:Jagr got his 1,857th point at the age of 44. Messier did it at 43 and Gretzky did it at 28. One of his countless stats that make you shake your head.

No one will ever match Gretzky's point total, but I'll say this..... Jagr spent three seasons in the K and was locked out for what equates to two full seasons (half of '94/95, all of '04/05 and half of '12/13). Granted, Gretzky also missed half of '94/95 at age 33, but considering that the first two lockouts were during Jagr's prime years, and that Jagr was still capable of putting up decent numbers during his 3-years away from the NHL, I think the dude would be pursuing Gretzky's goals record if he played the 5 lost years.

no one will ever match the "what if" potential of mario.

T.C. wrote:no one will ever match the "what if" potential of mario.

Good point (with all due respect to Orr, Bossy, etc.) But, Mario was hampered by physical issues. I give Jagr some credit for being physically capable of fulfilling the "what if" potential. His ability to play at a high level for a quarter of century is a major component of his greatness.

Having said that, I believe that no one at any point in history was as dominant as a young, healthy Mario Lemieux.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:... maybe his most impressive record to me is that in his final season of Pee Wee hockey at age 10, he scored 378 goals in 85 games.

Like I always said about Gretzky: Puck hog.

insideout wrote:Wow, he's brought the mullet back.

Not THE mullet ...

insideout wrote:

T.C. wrote:no one will ever match the "what if" potential of mario.

Good point (with all due respect to Orr, Bossy, etc.) But, Mario was hampered by physical issues. I give Jagr some credit for being physically capable of fulfilling the "what if" potential. His ability to play at a high level for a quarter of century is a major component of his greatness.

Having said that, I believe that no one at any point in history was as dominant as a young, healthy Mario Lemieux.

You might be right, but let's talk Orr for a second. In the 69-70 season, he lead the league in scoring by 21 points! He ended that year with a goal we're all familiar with, but that's not the point. He led the league in scoring again in the 74-75 season, which was unfortunately his last full year at the age of 27. 6 straight 100 pt seasons for a defenseman in a time when there'd be somewhere from 3-5 a year if that. Just incomprehensible stuff today.

Dave's a mess wrote:
You might be right, but let's talk Orr for a second. In the 69-70 season, he lead the league in scoring by 21 points! He ended that year with a goal we're all familiar with, but that's not the point. He led the league in scoring again in the 74-75 season, which was unfortunately his last full year at the age of 27. 6 straight 100 pt seasons for a defenseman in a time when there'd be somewhere from 3-5 a year if that. Just incomprehensible stuff today.

That's the thing with hockey. In every other major professional sport, you can legit argue who is the greatest at their position of all time. In Hockey it's Gretz at forward and Orr on D, no discussion needed. You're just arguing over the goaler.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

Dave's a mess wrote:
You might be right, but let's talk Orr for a second. In the 69-70 season, he lead the league in scoring by 21 points! He ended that year with a goal we're all familiar with, but that's not the point. He led the league in scoring again in the 74-75 season, which was unfortunately his last full year at the age of 27. 6 straight 100 pt seasons for a defenseman in a time when there'd be somewhere from 3-5 a year if that. Just incomprehensible stuff today.

That's the thing with hockey. In every other major professional sport, you can legit argue who is the greatest at their position of all time. In Hockey it's Gretz at forward and Orr on D, no discussion needed. You're just arguing over the goaler.

Goaler, nice.

I bet Gretzky never bought a teammate his and his monkeys.


He may not be a kid anymore, but Jaromir Jagr hasn’t lost his sense of fun. “He keeps telling me he is going to buy two monkeys, one for me and one for him,” said Florida teammate Nick Bjugstad. “I keep trying to tell him it’s illegal to own a monkey, or something. I don’t know what we’d do when we go on the road.” To which Jagr responded: “You know how on Christmas morning, some people get a ring at the doorbell and there’s a big package with a bow on the top? There’s going to be a monkey inside for Bjuggy. It’s going to be awesome.”

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:I bet Gretzky never bought a teammate his and his monkeys.


He may not be a kid anymore, but Jaromir Jagr hasn’t lost his sense of fun. “He keeps telling me he is going to buy two monkeys, one for me and one for him,” said Florida teammate Nick Bjugstad. “I keep trying to tell him it’s illegal to own a monkey, or something. I don’t know what we’d do when we go on the road.” To which Jagr responded: “You know how on Christmas morning, some people get a ring at the doorbell and there’s a big package with a bow on the top? There’s going to be a monkey inside for Bjuggy. It’s going to be awesome.”

That is fucking hilarious

T.C. wrote:no one will ever match the "what if" potential of mario.

EXACTLY! Even in Gretzky's autobiography he said he agreed with Orr. Orr said as far as PURE talent goes Lemieux is the BEST EVER!

That 88-89 season Lemieux is the most AMAZING in NHL history. I know he got 199 points which is a few points shy of Gretzky's best BUT Lemieux was playing with Rob Brown & Bob Errey!! Even ESPN analyst Bill Clement back then said Lemieux could score 300 points if he were on the Oilers instead of Gretzky! That was hyperbole but you get the idea.

Clement also said Lemieux was a better passer than Gretzky back then. Remember Clement was the top hockey guy at ESPN then.

well holy fuck if clement said it, it must be true.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

Dave's a mess wrote:
You might be right, but let's talk Orr for a second. In the 69-70 season, he lead the league in scoring by 21 points! He ended that year with a goal we're all familiar with, but that's not the point. He led the league in scoring again in the 74-75 season, which was unfortunately his last full year at the age of 27. 6 straight 100 pt seasons for a defenseman in a time when there'd be somewhere from 3-5 a year if that. Just incomprehensible stuff today.

That's the thing with hockey. In every other major professional sport, you can legit argue who is the greatest at their position of all time. In Hockey it's Gretz at forward and Orr on D, no discussion needed. You're just arguing over the goaler.

LOL..wrong. Obviously Gretzky is by far the most prolific scorer but that doesn't mean the best. In Gretzky's OWN biography he agrees with Orr that Mario is the most talented EVER!

In their prime ANYONE could tell Lemieux was better than Gretzky. Bigger, faster, better moves & dekes, & a better shot! Gretzky could NOT undress players like Lemieux did. After the 87 Canada Cup Gretzky said Mario has the best wrist shot he's ever seen!

Also Lemieux didn't get to play with a team of hall of famers like Gretzky did & Mario had injuries & cancer that limited his career production.

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

Dave's a mess wrote:
You might be right, but let's talk Orr for a second. In the 69-70 season, he lead the league in scoring by 21 points! He ended that year with a goal we're all familiar with, but that's not the point. He led the league in scoring again in the 74-75 season, which was unfortunately his last full year at the age of 27. 6 straight 100 pt seasons for a defenseman in a time when there'd be somewhere from 3-5 a year if that. Just incomprehensible stuff today.

That's the thing with hockey. In every other major professional sport, you can legit argue who is the greatest at their position of all time. In Hockey it's Gretz at forward and Orr on D, no discussion needed. You're just arguing over the goaler.

LOL..wrong. Obviously Gretzky is by far the most prolific scorer but that doesn't mean the best. In Gretzky's OWN biography he agrees with Orr that Mario is the most talented EVER!

In their prime ANYONE could tell Lemieux was better than Gretzky. Bigger, faster, better moves & dekes, & a better shot! Gretzky could NOT undress players like Lemieux did. After the 87 Canada Cup Gretzky said Mario has the best wrist shot he's ever seen!

Also Lemieux didn't get to play with a team of hall of famers like Gretzky did & Mario had injuries & cancer that limited his career production.