UMSLBlues12 wrote:http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ho ... story.html
Official apology in which he admits he used the word (since he specifically apologized to the gay and lesbian community).
Now that its confirmed what he said, NHL has a chance here to really draw the line on what saying a homophobic slur gets you, I suppose. They can't say "we don't have evidence he said it" or any BS like that.
To your last paragraph, I somewhat agree, but I don't think being "butthurt" should be the gauge of what gets people suspended. Some things are just wrong to say, whether they make people butthurt or not. "Faggot" is pretty much considered to be on pretty equal terms with the gay community as the n-word is with the black community--its just probably something that we shouldn't be using in our vocabularies.T.C. wrote:so he lied, then apologized after seeing the obvious footage. meaning, he was sorry after he got caught. if the fans and/or the NHL want to accept this apology and forgive him, that is a separate issue from the consequences. precedent has been set, he will be suspended. but my issue with this is that it completely clouds all his other suspendable actions last game.
that being said, a part of me thinks that if you are butthurt by ANYTHING that is said in the heat of battle, you probably shouldn't be watching hockey. being as offensive as possible to get under folks' skin is part of his job. i firmly believe that if it were alleged and weren't caught on tape, no action would be taken. NHL has an image to uphold and has been embarrassed thus will mete out punishment accordingly.
Additionally, this wasn't something said in a scrum or anything else--it was said to abuse an official along with a tirade of other acts, which is why I for sure think he would get suspended.That's impressively shortsighted of you. The issue isn't that the person the slur is intended for is going to be offended, its the effect of using it as a derogatory term. If Shaw has a gay teammate that isn't comfortable in coming out because he hears a teammate using his lifestyle as a derogatory term, and has to live part of his life as a complete lie, then it has an incredible effect on the person.
People need to realize that countless people (especially young people) take their own life because they are gay and don't feel like they can comfortably come out. Having these terms used in a derogatory manner just perpetuates the problem further.
Claiming is some PC nonsense and "boys will be boys" is insanely ignorant to the real issue.
Regardless of how people feel about what should or should not be said between players during the heat of battle, this was all directed at an nhl official. If the people running this league expect the nhl to be viewed as a major sport - that cannot be excused. What do we think would happen if Carpenter comes to bat today, takes a strike call, then turns around and in front of 40,000 fans plus tv audience, gives him the finger? You can bet mlb would nail him as hard as contractual language allows. (and they should)UMSLBlues12 wrote:To your last paragraph, I somewhat agree, but I don't think being "butthurt" should be the gauge of what gets people suspended. Some things are just wrong to say, whether they make people butthurt or not. "Faggot" is pretty much considered to be on pretty equal terms with the gay community as the n-word is with the black community--its just probably something that we shouldn't be using in our vocabularies.T.C. wrote:so he lied, then apologized after seeing the obvious footage. meaning, he was sorry after he got caught. if the fans and/or the NHL want to accept this apology and forgive him, that is a separate issue from the consequences. precedent has been set, he will be suspended. but my issue with this is that it completely clouds all his other suspendable actions last game.
that being said, a part of me thinks that if you are butthurt by ANYTHING that is said in the heat of battle, you probably shouldn't be watching hockey. being as offensive as possible to get under folks' skin is part of his job. i firmly believe that if it were alleged and weren't caught on tape, no action would be taken. NHL has an image to uphold and has been embarrassed thus will mete out punishment accordingly.
Beatoni12 on another blues board had this to say and I agree with him completely so I'll just paste it in here:
Additionally, this wasn't something said in a scrum or anything else--it was said to abuse an official along with a tirade of other acts, which is why I for sure think he would get suspended.That's impressively shortsighted of you. The issue isn't that the person the slur is intended for is going to be offended, its the effect of using it as a derogatory term. If Shaw has a gay teammate that isn't comfortable in coming out because he hears a teammate using his lifestyle as a derogatory term, and has to live part of his life as a complete lie, then it has an incredible effect on the person.
People need to realize that countless people (especially young people) take their own life because they are gay and don't feel like they can comfortably come out. Having these terms used in a derogatory manner just perpetuates the problem further.
Claiming is some PC nonsense and "boys will be boys" is insanely ignorant to the real issue.
There is no character left in him... he sold his soul to win cups... Crotch-grabbing and all.. No way he suspends him, even though he should.barnburner wrote:Regardless of how people feel about what should or should not be said between players during the heat of battle, this was all directed at an nhl official. If the people running this league expect the nhl to be viewed as a major sport - that cannot be excused. What do we think would happen if Carpenter comes to bat today, takes a strike call, then turns around and in front of 40,000 fans plus tv audience, gives him the finger? You can bet mlb would nail him as hard as contractual language allows. (and they should)UMSLBlues12 wrote:To your last paragraph, I somewhat agree, but I don't think being "butthurt" should be the gauge of what gets people suspended. Some things are just wrong to say, whether they make people butthurt or not. "Faggot" is pretty much considered to be on pretty equal terms with the gay community as the n-word is with the black community--its just probably something that we shouldn't be using in our vocabularies.T.C. wrote:so he lied, then apologized after seeing the obvious footage. meaning, he was sorry after he got caught. if the fans and/or the NHL want to accept this apology and forgive him, that is a separate issue from the consequences. precedent has been set, he will be suspended. but my issue with this is that it completely clouds all his other suspendable actions last game.
that being said, a part of me thinks that if you are butthurt by ANYTHING that is said in the heat of battle, you probably shouldn't be watching hockey. being as offensive as possible to get under folks' skin is part of his job. i firmly believe that if it were alleged and weren't caught on tape, no action would be taken. NHL has an image to uphold and has been embarrassed thus will mete out punishment accordingly.
Beatoni12 on another blues board had this to say and I agree with him completely so I'll just paste it in here:
Additionally, this wasn't something said in a scrum or anything else--it was said to abuse an official along with a tirade of other acts, which is why I for sure think he would get suspended.That's impressively shortsighted of you. The issue isn't that the person the slur is intended for is going to be offended, its the effect of using it as a derogatory term. If Shaw has a gay teammate that isn't comfortable in coming out because he hears a teammate using his lifestyle as a derogatory term, and has to live part of his life as a complete lie, then it has an incredible effect on the person.
People need to realize that countless people (especially young people) take their own life because they are gay and don't feel like they can comfortably come out. Having these terms used in a derogatory manner just perpetuates the problem further.
Claiming is some PC nonsense and "boys will be boys" is insanely ignorant to the real issue.
The NHL should do that same. That most of us doubt it will happen is a sad commentary on the nhl's history of inconsistency and dishonesty in regards to player discipline.
Furthermore, If Quenneville had any character left in him, he would take care of the matter himself, by suspending him from the team for the rest of this series. But, selfishly, he wants to win, so he won't do the right thing.
Remember the Garry Templeton incident with the Cardinals? Herzog drew the line, win, lose, or draw.
Not saying it's right, but you can expect some salty language between players before, during. and after a scrum...the heat of the moment argument fits in that slot. Giving the double bird, banging the stick on the glass inside the penalty box, and directly verbally abusing an official/officials is so far past the line it doesn't even need a long video review. I've read some comments from Hawk's fans on other boards that there is no proof that he said anything since he wasn't miked up. They seem to forget about the penalty time keeper who is also in the box. Q should sacrifice Shaw to the Hockey Gods if he expects to keep getting the ice tilted in his favor.barnburner wrote:Regardless of how people feel about what should or should not be said between players during the heat of battle, this was all directed at an nhl official. If the people running this league expect the nhl to be viewed as a major sport - that cannot be excused. What do we think would happen if Carpenter comes to bat today, takes a strike call, then turns around and in front of 40,000 fans plus tv audience, gives him the finger? You can bet mlb would nail him as hard as contractual language allows. (and they should)UMSLBlues12 wrote:To your last paragraph, I somewhat agree, but I don't think being "butthurt" should be the gauge of what gets people suspended. Some things are just wrong to say, whether they make people butthurt or not. "Faggot" is pretty much considered to be on pretty equal terms with the gay community as the n-word is with the black community--its just probably something that we shouldn't be using in our vocabularies.T.C. wrote:so he lied, then apologized after seeing the obvious footage. meaning, he was sorry after he got caught. if the fans and/or the NHL want to accept this apology and forgive him, that is a separate issue from the consequences. precedent has been set, he will be suspended. but my issue with this is that it completely clouds all his other suspendable actions last game.
that being said, a part of me thinks that if you are butthurt by ANYTHING that is said in the heat of battle, you probably shouldn't be watching hockey. being as offensive as possible to get under folks' skin is part of his job. i firmly believe that if it were alleged and weren't caught on tape, no action would be taken. NHL has an image to uphold and has been embarrassed thus will mete out punishment accordingly.
Beatoni12 on another blues board had this to say and I agree with him completely so I'll just paste it in here:
Additionally, this wasn't something said in a scrum or anything else--it was said to abuse an official along with a tirade of other acts, which is why I for sure think he would get suspended.That's impressively shortsighted of you. The issue isn't that the person the slur is intended for is going to be offended, its the effect of using it as a derogatory term. If Shaw has a gay teammate that isn't comfortable in coming out because he hears a teammate using his lifestyle as a derogatory term, and has to live part of his life as a complete lie, then it has an incredible effect on the person.
People need to realize that countless people (especially young people) take their own life because they are gay and don't feel like they can comfortably come out. Having these terms used in a derogatory manner just perpetuates the problem further.
Claiming is some PC nonsense and "boys will be boys" is insanely ignorant to the real issue.
The NHL should do that same. That most of us doubt it will happen is a sad commentary on the nhl's history of inconsistency and dishonesty in regards to player discipline.
Furthermore, If Quenneville had any character left in him, he would take care of the matter himself, by suspending him from the team for the rest of this series. But, selfishly, he wants to win, so he won't do the right thing.
Remember the Garry Templeton incident with the Cardinals? Herzog drew the line, win, lose, or draw.
this.blueslifer wrote:What I want to know is why when he was flipping off and calling ref names did they not give him a bench minor or game misconduct right then and there? These refs do not deserve respect, hell they don't even respect themselves.
Actually I just looked in the rule book and Shaw's actions are worthy of a game misconduct and supplemental disciplinary actions from the league. That's just for the obscene gestures, that doesn't even count the homophobic slur.T.C. wrote:this.blueslifer wrote:What I want to know is why when he was flipping off and calling ref names did they not give him a bench minor or game misconduct right then and there? These refs do not deserve respect, hell they don't even respect themselves.
...That's where Q learned that movebarnburner wrote:Regardless of how people feel about what should or should not be said between players during the heat of battle, this was all directed at an nhl official. If the people running this league expect the nhl to be viewed as a major sport - that cannot be excused. What do we think would happen if Carpenter comes to bat today, takes a strike call, then turns around and in front of 40,000 fans plus tv audience, gives him the finger? You can bet mlb would nail him as hard as contractual language allows. (and they should)UMSLBlues12 wrote:To your last paragraph, I somewhat agree, but I don't think being "butthurt" should be the gauge of what gets people suspended. Some things are just wrong to say, whether they make people butthurt or not. "Faggot" is pretty much considered to be on pretty equal terms with the gay community as the n-word is with the black community--its just probably something that we shouldn't be using in our vocabularies.T.C. wrote:so he lied, then apologized after seeing the obvious footage. meaning, he was sorry after he got caught. if the fans and/or the NHL want to accept this apology and forgive him, that is a separate issue from the consequences. precedent has been set, he will be suspended. but my issue with this is that it completely clouds all his other suspendable actions last game.
that being said, a part of me thinks that if you are butthurt by ANYTHING that is said in the heat of battle, you probably shouldn't be watching hockey. being as offensive as possible to get under folks' skin is part of his job. i firmly believe that if it were alleged and weren't caught on tape, no action would be taken. NHL has an image to uphold and has been embarrassed thus will mete out punishment accordingly.
Beatoni12 on another blues board had this to say and I agree with him completely so I'll just paste it in here:
Additionally, this wasn't something said in a scrum or anything else--it was said to abuse an official along with a tirade of other acts, which is why I for sure think he would get suspended.That's impressively shortsighted of you. The issue isn't that the person the slur is intended for is going to be offended, its the effect of using it as a derogatory term. If Shaw has a gay teammate that isn't comfortable in coming out because he hears a teammate using his lifestyle as a derogatory term, and has to live part of his life as a complete lie, then it has an incredible effect on the person.
People need to realize that countless people (especially young people) take their own life because they are gay and don't feel like they can comfortably come out. Having these terms used in a derogatory manner just perpetuates the problem further.
Claiming is some PC nonsense and "boys will be boys" is insanely ignorant to the real issue.
The NHL should do that same. That most of us doubt it will happen is a sad commentary on the nhl's history of inconsistency and dishonesty in regards to player discipline.
Furthermore, If Quenneville had any character left in him, he would take care of the matter himself, by suspending him from the team for the rest of this series. But, selfishly, he wants to win, so he won't do the right thing.
Remember the Garry Templeton incident with the Cardinals? Herzog drew the line, win, lose, or draw.
Well said. A lot of interesting points made in this thread. I know this kind of language wouldn't have raised an eyebrow as recently as 10-15 years ago, but that's not relevant. Shaw deserves every single bit of criticism he's drawn over the last 18 hours. There are countless other words he could've used in his little toddler temper tantrum without looking like anything more than just that, a toddler. Instead chose words that make him look like a bigot and everybody knows are off-limits. Regardless of if he meant it or no, the league needs to make him pay for it since the Hawks obviously won't (see Kane, Patrick). Obviously the Kane thing isn't an apples to apples comparison, but you see where the Hawks stand regarding winning vs. PR.Doug Glatt wrote:The NHL is supposed to be the best league in the world.
Last night was an embarrassment to hockey. Not just the NHL.
I get players say stupid crap on the ice during a game. How do you really stop or police that? But what Shaw did embarrassed the entire league, while hurting the game's reputation and its fans - gay and straight. People saying "PC police" or get thicker skin are really missing the point. It should be Shaw that needs thicker skin.
This game is just that. A game. It is supposed to be fun and be inclusive, not exclusive. A lot of people and players lose sight of that and get wrapped up in ego and money.
I understand it is the playoffs, and it is very intense. To me though Shaw wasn't showing intensity or a desire to win. He was making a mockery of the game itself. I really hope the NHL sees it that way, but I sadly have no faith in the NHL's leadership.
well said. but, i was saying some stupid shit last night because of how fed up i was with the refs, i can only imagine what it must be like as a player during the game. he had it with the refs & said stupid shit. it happens. there are consequences for doing it, however. or, there had better be. again, my bigger problem with all the focus on his mean words is that all of his other actions are ignored.Doug Glatt wrote:The NHL is supposed to be the best league in the world.
Last night was an embarrassment to hockey. Not just the NHL.
I get players say stupid crap on the ice during a game. How do you really stop or police that? But what Shaw did embarrassed the entire league, while hurting the game's reputation and its fans - gay and straight. People saying "PC police" or get thicker skin are really missing the point. It should be Shaw that needs thicker skin.
This game is just that. A game. It is supposed to be fun and be inclusive, not exclusive. A lot of people and players lose sight of that and get wrapped up in ego and money.
I understand it is the playoffs, and it is very intense. To me though Shaw wasn't showing intensity or a desire to win. He was making a mockery of the game itself. I really hope the NHL sees it that way, but I sadly have no faith in the NHL's leadership.
This.Dave's a mess wrote:Well said. A lot of interesting points made in this thread. I know this kind of language wouldn't have raised an eyebrow as recently as 10-15 years ago, but that's not relevant. Shaw deserves every single bit of criticism he's drawn over the last 18 hours. There are countless other words he could've used in his little toddler temper tantrum without looking like anything more than just that, a toddler. Instead chose words that make him look like a bigot and everybody knows are off-limits. Regardless of if he meant it or no, the league needs to make him pay for it since the Hawks obviously won't (see Kane, Patrick). Obviously the Kane thing isn't an apples to apples comparison, but you see where the Hawks stand regarding winning vs. PR.Doug Glatt wrote:The NHL is supposed to be the best league in the world.
Last night was an embarrassment to hockey. Not just the NHL.
I get players say stupid crap on the ice during a game. How do you really stop or police that? But what Shaw did embarrassed the entire league, while hurting the game's reputation and its fans - gay and straight. People saying "PC police" or get thicker skin are really missing the point. It should be Shaw that needs thicker skin.
This game is just that. A game. It is supposed to be fun and be inclusive, not exclusive. A lot of people and players lose sight of that and get wrapped up in ego and money.
I understand it is the playoffs, and it is very intense. To me though Shaw wasn't showing intensity or a desire to win. He was making a mockery of the game itself. I really hope the NHL sees it that way, but I sadly have no faith in the NHL's leadership.
I totally understand where you are coming from. I played a lot of hockey growing up, and I said many things that I look back on now and regret.T.C. wrote:well said. but, i was saying some stupid shit last night because of how fed up i was with the refs, i can only imagine what it must be like as a player during the game. he had it with the refs & said stupid shit. it happens. there are consequences for doing it, however. or, there had better be. again, my bigger problem with all the focus on his mean words is that all of his other actions are ignored.Doug Glatt wrote:The NHL is supposed to be the best league in the world.
Last night was an embarrassment to hockey. Not just the NHL.
I get players say stupid crap on the ice during a game. How do you really stop or police that? But what Shaw did embarrassed the entire league, while hurting the game's reputation and its fans - gay and straight. People saying "PC police" or get thicker skin are really missing the point. It should be Shaw that needs thicker skin.
This game is just that. A game. It is supposed to be fun and be inclusive, not exclusive. A lot of people and players lose sight of that and get wrapped up in ego and money.
I understand it is the playoffs, and it is very intense. To me though Shaw wasn't showing intensity or a desire to win. He was making a mockery of the game itself. I really hope the NHL sees it that way, but I sadly have no faith in the NHL's leadership.
This is very true as well. I'm sure the Blues won't forget or they shouldn't.T.C. wrote: well said. but, i was saying some stupid shit last night because of how fed up i was with the refs, i can only imagine what it must be like as a player during the game. he had it with the refs & said stupid shit. it happens. there are consequences for doing it, however. or, there had better be. again, my bigger problem with all the focus on his mean words is that all of his other actions are ignored.
No matter what happens with supplementary discipline for Shaw, that really does make me feel better, thanks.UMSLBlues12 wrote:https://streamable.com/feyw
Unrelated to current discussion, but still related to Shaw, I completely missed Brouwer getting this cross-check to the face of Shaw right after the Hawks 2nd goal. Wonderful.
The Blues should use rainbow tape on their sticks.T.C. wrote:an awesome response would be for pro-LGBTQWTFBBQ things to be handed out to the entire crowd tomorrow night. rainbow flags, whatever. that would be hilarious and positive.
