MiamiLaw wrote:

Battra wrote: Then if nothing else, you have to call that a wash.

I don't think there was ever a chance of his staying here looking back.

Curious as to why you say that? Everything I read said that 99 was planning on resigning here, but that something with Keenan made him choose to move on. It's in JR's book, I just can't remember the specifics.

With the people whom I spoke with at the time, I was an Usher there, there was a big consensus that he was going to walk at the end of the year....never bought a house...never moved his wife in...etc.

AttackLemmings wrote:

Battra wrote: Then if nothing else, you have to call that a wash.

I don't think there was ever a chance of his staying here looking back.

Nope, not gunna change my mind... I knew all that before and still hate the man... Hated him with Chicago, and hated him here.

You can like him if you want, I want nothing to do with him.(Hatred probably spills over from the Chicago days)

I just think there's really not a whole lot to hate...brought in some very important players that were here for years after he was gone.

He did no better or worse than any of the other 25 head coaches...save Bowman and whoever was coaching in 96...

I think lots of folks hated him when he took the C from Hull.

Battra wrote:

MiamiLaw wrote:

Battra wrote: Then if nothing else, you have to call that a wash.

I don't think there was ever a chance of his staying here looking back.

Curious as to why you say that? Everything I read said that 99 was planning on resigning here, but that something with Keenan made him choose to move on. It's in JR's book, I just can't remember the specifics.

With the people whom I spoke with at the time, I was an Usher there, there was a big consensus that he was going to walk at the end of the year....never bought a house...never moved his wife in...etc.

Ah, I see. You had the inside scoop. Oh well. Crazy to think that the Blues gave up essentially nothing to acquire him anyways.

MiamiLaw wrote: Ah, I see. You had the inside scoop. Oh well. Crazy to think that the Blues gave up essentially nothing to acquire him anyways.

I dunno how inside it was...

Just the chatter I head going around.

I remember at the time...it was Craig Johnson, Roman Vopat, and a couple other spare parts...Tardiff maybe?

Johnson was the fastest skater I've ever seen! He could do nothing else...literally nothing else.

Vopat...oh I was shocked we gave up such a blue chip prospect as Vopat....

Both of those guys amounted to a loogey in the NHL.

MiamiLaw wrote:

Battra wrote: Then if nothing else, you have to call that a wash.

I don't think there was ever a chance of his staying here looking back.

Curious as to why you say that? Everything I read said that 99 was planning on resigning here, but that something with Keenan made him choose to move on. It's in JR's book, I just can't remember the specifics.

I haven't read JR's book but it was definitely the incident in which he berated Corson in front of the team. Gretzky is on record saying that was when he made his decision he wasn't coming back.

1. Doug Gilmour
2. Adam Oates
3. Brett Hull

How in the world do you break up Hull and Oates? I don't care what Oates was asking for.

MiamiLaw wrote:

Battra wrote: Then if nothing else, you have to call that a wash.

I don't think there was ever a chance of his staying here looking back.

Curious as to why you say that? Everything I read said that 99 was planning on resigning here, but that something with Keenan made him choose to move on. It's in JR's book, I just can't remember the specifics.

When Blues management had concerns about how #99 played against Toronto in the playoffs, (following a big hit in the back on the boards by Gilmour) Jack Quinn pulled his contract offer of the table.
The day before he signed in New York, Gretzky told reporters that he was confident he would be able to reach an agreement with the Blues
That's how I remember it anyway.

barnburner wrote:

MiamiLaw wrote:

Battra wrote: Then if nothing else, you have to call that a wash.

I don't think there was ever a chance of his staying here looking back.

Curious as to why you say that? Everything I read said that 99 was planning on resigning here, but that something with Keenan made him choose to move on. It's in JR's book, I just can't remember the specifics.

When Blues management had concerns about how #99 played against Toronto in the playoffs, (following a big hit in the back on the boards by Gilmour) Jack Quinn pulled his contract offer of the table.
The day before he signed in New York, Gretzky told reporters that he was confident he would be able to reach an agreement with the Blues
That's how I remember it anyway.

Yes. Thanks for the reminder. I think that's what was in JR's book. The Corson thing is news to me. Not saying it's not true, just I hadn't heard that before.

MiamiLaw wrote:

Battra wrote: Then if nothing else, you have to call that a wash.

I don't think there was ever a chance of his staying here looking back.

Curious as to why you say that? Everything I read said that 99 was planning on resigning here, but that something with Keenan made him choose to move on. It's in JR's book, I just can't remember the specifics.

The Blues reportedly had an offer on the table and Gretzky was interested in staying, but Keenan pulled it as part of a power trip. By the time the postseason ended Gretzky wanted nothing to do with him.

Keenan did a lot of good things, but he needed a leash. Pronger and Demitra were great moves. Gretzky SHOULD have been a great move. But he burned as many bridges as he built.

To me the worst loss was Pronger. He should have played out the rest of his career here. It was just an absolutely asinine decision to move him. It never made any sense. What's more attractive to potential buyers? A gutted club with zero talent? Or a club with a still in his prime MVP / Norris candidate? Laurie and Co. were idiots.

EDIT: The dispute that led to Oates getting moved was pretty idiotic as well. Oates and Hull were brilliant together. Hull never again was that much of a threat.

bluetuned wrote: The Blues reportedly had an offer on the table and Gretzky was interested in staying, but Keenan pulled it as part of a power trip. By the time the postseason ended Gretzky wanted nothing to do with him.

Keenan did a lot of good things, but he needed a leash. Pronger and Demitra were great moves. Gretzky SHOULD have been a great move. But he burned as many bridges as he built.

To me the worst loss was Pronger. He should have played out the rest of his career here. It was just an absolutely asinine decision to move him. It never made any sense. What's more attractive to potential buyers? A gutted club with zero talent? Or a club with a still in his prime MVP / Norris candidate? Laurie and Co. were idiots.

I think Checketts went on record saying that he would have been more inclined to buy the team with Pronger on it than without. Not sure what Laurie's thinking was on that one...but I don't believe that he thinks much about anything. Every foray into the public eye has been pretty much a disaster for him.

MiamiLaw wrote:

bluetuned wrote: The Blues reportedly had an offer on the table and Gretzky was interested in staying, but Keenan pulled it as part of a power trip. By the time the postseason ended Gretzky wanted nothing to do with him.

Keenan did a lot of good things, but he needed a leash. Pronger and Demitra were great moves. Gretzky SHOULD have been a great move. But he burned as many bridges as he built.

To me the worst loss was Pronger. He should have played out the rest of his career here. It was just an absolutely asinine decision to move him. It never made any sense. What's more attractive to potential buyers? A gutted club with zero talent? Or a club with a still in his prime MVP / Norris candidate? Laurie and Co. were idiots.

I think Checketts went on record saying that he would have been more inclined to buy the team with Pronger on it than without. Not sure what Laurie's thinking was on that one...but I don't believe that he thinks much about anything. Every foray into the public eye has been pretty much a disaster for him.

Yeah it was just simply a middle finger to St. Louis and the fans. Anybody connected to hockey knew there was zero business sense to the move. When you're trying to sell a team, you don't give away one of the best players in the world for relative scraps.

To me, 'get away' means someone we let walk in FA, so I would have to go with Gretzky, Hull, and Demitra as the top 3 of my viewing time that we let 'get away' which were a mistake.

If talking overall, yeah then Pronger jumps to the top of that list for sure.

Battra wrote:

CaptSMRT wrote:Letting Hull walk was plain stupid.

I don't know honestly.

We got the best of Hull in STL by far.

Played about 10 years with us and got 500 goals.

Played about 10 years elsewhere...and got about 200 goals.

There would be no home team discount I'd presume....would you pay him to stay?

To let him walk...people may have been mad with the trade...at least they would have gotten something.

Pronger.

Guy went on to almost single-handidly carry the Oilers of all teams to the Cup Finals.

As a previous poster said, the Cup talk seemed to follow him around wherever he went. Pronger was an absolute beast and definitely should have been a lifetime Blues.

Man in the box wrote:1. Doug Gilmour
2. Adam Oates
3. Brett Hull

How in the world do you break up Hull and Oates? I don't care what Oates was asking for.

I don't think that it had anything to do with what he was asking for. It was that he asked for it every time another center got more money than he did. He wanted to renegotiate at least once a season. Thank goodness that is now prohibited by the CBA. Probably referred to as the Oats Clause.

What an unpleasant experience, to remember all the great players The Blues let get away (often because they didn't have enough money to keep them). Pronger, Stevens, Hull, Gilmour, Brind'Amour, and Mullen all in their primes. Also, Gretzky, still a good player (although just a shadow of his younger self), and Demitra (just about to start his downslide-but still a good player). And letting Bowman leave early in his career was a big mistake, as well (thanks to Sid III). Bad memories.

PERRON!!!!!!!! heh

Battra wrote:

MiamiLaw wrote: Ah, I see. You had the inside scoop. Oh well. Crazy to think that the Blues gave up essentially nothing to acquire him anyways.

I dunno how inside it was...

Just the chatter I head going around.

I remember at the time...it was Craig Johnson, Roman Vopat, and a couple other spare parts...Tardiff maybe?

Johnson was the fastest skater I've ever seen! He could do nothing else...literally nothing else.

Vopat...oh I was shocked we gave up such a blue chip prospect as Vopat....

Both of those guys amounted to a loogey in the NHL.

Wasn't Ian Lapierier (spelling+hockey names should be illegal) in that deal.

Hull
Oates
Mullen

To be fair re: Scott Stevens, the Blues did everything in their power to both bring him to St. Louis and then to bring him back later, including sacrificing a half decade's worth of 1st round picks to Washington in the first place and then breaking a few rules trying to get him back from New Jersey. They didn't let him go willingly.

That whole scenario was ridiculous. The fact that they ever awarded current players as compensation for signing RFAs was totally insane.

Keenan made some nice moves as mentioned, but anyone remember when he tried to reassemble the 85 Oilers? That was so painful to watch him parade old-as-dirt guys like Charlie Huddy out there (although I was a HUGE Esa Tikkanen fan).

Craig MacTavish too. lol

bluetuned wrote:To be fair re: Scott Stevens, the Blues did everything in their power to both bring him to St. Louis and then to bring him back later, including sacrificing a half decade's worth of 1st round picks to Washington in the first place and then breaking a few rules trying to get him back from New Jersey. They didn't let him go willingly.

That whole scenario was ridiculous. The fact that they ever awarded current players as compensation for signing RFAs was totally insane.

The so-called arbitration process was a total sham, designed to discourage any free movement of players.

stlblues1226 wrote:

Man in the box wrote:1. Doug Gilmour
2. Adam Oates
3. Brett Hull

How in the world do you break up Hull and Oates? I don't care what Oates was asking for.

I don't think that it had anything to do with what he was asking for. It was that he asked for it every time another center got more money than he did. He wanted to renegotiate at least once a season. Thank goodness that is now prohibited by the CBA. Probably referred to as the Oats Clause.

I recall that having more to do with what they gave Butcher after he was acquired from Vancouver, but your point is dead on. He'd have a contract and then someone else got money and he'd want another contract. I still stand by my statement though. That was a once in a lifetime pairing. I don't know how you make the decision to break it up, even if you thought Hull could score with anyone at center.