LrdStnly wrote:

MissouriMook wrote: You could even retain up to 1/3 on Backes as an enticement if they look to be wanting him to move him later, as Backes at $3M would be very attractive as a deadline acquisition for just about any team.

Huh? You're implying we're sellers at the deadline?

No....he's implying that Toronto is sellers at the deadline.

MissouriMook wrote:The Leafs have almost $7M of extra cap space this season before they do anything else. Conventional wisdom says they'll move guys like Bozak, Lupul and Phaneuf before they move JVR, but if they like the two prospects and either think Backes is useful for them this year or can net a nice basket of futures at the deadline, then Berglund is basically a cap dump to un-crowd the forward group. You would have JVR joining Steen, Stastny, Schwartz and Tarasenko and (hopefully) Fabbri in the Top 6. You could even retain up to 1/3 on Backes as an enticement if they look to be wanting him to move him later, as Backes at $3M would be very attractive as a deadline acquisition for just about any team.

This sounds like a gross overpayment to me. JVR is fine, but I feel like this move would hurt the Blues both short and long term. Given the Leafs desire to build toward the future, you could probably grab a decent NHL player (though maybe not JVR) for just a couple of youngsters, ie Rattie/Vanelli.

LrdStnly wrote:

MissouriMook wrote: You could even retain up to 1/3 on Backes as an enticement if they look to be wanting him to move him later, as Backes at $3M would be very attractive as a deadline acquisition for just about any team.

Huh? You're implying we're sellers at the deadline?

No, we'd be selling Backes now (in the JVR deal) and TOR would be sellers at the deadline. If we trade Backes today and retain $1.5M he costs the acquiring team the prorated portion of $3M (instead of $4.5M) which would make it even easier for TORONTO to move him. That's all I was saying.

MissouriMook wrote:

LrdStnly wrote:

MissouriMook wrote: You could even retain up to 1/3 on Backes as an enticement if they look to be wanting him to move him later, as Backes at $3M would be very attractive as a deadline acquisition for just about any team.

Huh? You're implying we're sellers at the deadline?

No, we'd be selling Backes now (in the JVR deal) and TOR would be sellers at the deadline. If we trade Backes today and retain $1.5M he costs the acquiring team the prorated portion of $3M (instead of $4.5M) which would make it even easier for TORONTO to move him. That's all I was saying.

Ha! Ok...I follow now. Thanks for the clarification.

that's fucking bonkers overpayment.

T.C. wrote:that's fucking bonkers overpayment.

Which is exactly what it will take if you're going to pry JVR out of TOR. The only piece we'd actually miss in that package is Backes. Berglund may end up on the 4th line this year and Rattie and Vannelli may never be regular NHL players here.

LrdStnly wrote:

MissouriMook wrote: You could even retain up to 1/3 on Backes as an enticement if they look to be wanting him to move him later, as Backes at $3M would be very attractive as a deadline acquisition for just about any team.

Huh? You're implying we're sellers at the deadline?

Or cashing in on a captain/face of the franchise/end of an era ufa player

Edit: replied to a 6th page response wo reading 7th page first


... Alcohol+forums +kneejerk reactions=super fail

I'm just not happy enough with what has been done this off season.

Moving just Oshie and hoping Jake Jaden and Tank get better isn't enough. Because we're gonna draw the Hawks or the Kings..... AGAIN!

Damn Central Divison. The Blues should move to East St. Louis and demand to be put in the East. I digress....

Bring me Ryan Nugent Hopkins! I don't care what it takes.

About two months from training camp and here are a few thoughts:

Backes - I'm still on the fence about the trade him/keep him issue. I'm hopeful that he'll come around to a Steen-like extension, so I'm assuming for the time being that he's not going anywhere. If that holds true, in my mind Hitch has to decide whether he's a shut down center or a primary source of offense. The time has passed for him to be both. I think he would excel in either role, but Hitch needs to pick one. If he's to be driving offense, put him on RW with Stastny. If he's going to be our shut down guy, he needs to be centering the 3rd line.

Stastny - Play him. A lot. Period. My preference would be to have him paired with Tarasenko, but depending on how Backes' usage is determined, I'm fine if they keep 12-91 as a pair. But for crying out loud if you're putting 12-91 together put 17-26 together and leave them alone. Wasting another season of Stastny with inferior linemates is inexcusable.

Jaskin/Fabbri/Rattie/Paajarvi - The way I see it, and assuming no other roster moves before camp, these four are fighting for two spots in the lineup. Even if it means that two of them (excluding Fabbri) have to be sent to Chicago, so be it.

Berglund - At 27, Berglund is what he is. With the right role, he can be useful, but the thought of him being a dynamic player in the NHL is pretty much gone now. If he's being kept around as Top 9 insurance, I can't see giving him minutes ahead of any young player who has earned the chance. We could very easily see Bergy playing out the string for the next two seasons and then being allowed to walk, because frankly if anyone was willing to offer anything of value for him he would be gone by now. At this point, he is a spare part and should see plenty of time on the 4th line and in the press box if kids are earning meaningful minutes.

There are only two months until camp, but it will seem like forever so this is subject to change, but here is the lineup I would like to see on opening night based on what I know today:

Schwartz-Stastny-Backes
Steen-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Fabbri-Brouwer-Jaskin
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves

JBo-Petro
Lindbohm-Shatty
Gunnar-Borts

Elliott between the pipes and Allen on the bench

Berglund, Paajarvi, Butler in the press box

Those are really good lines. I would not hesitate to swap Berglund for Ott.

With all of these pieces there has to be a move Army can make. I guess the potential return is not good enough.

MissouriMook wrote: Schwartz-Stastny-Backes
Steen-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Fabbri-Brouwer-Jaskin
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves

JBo-Petro
Lindbohm-Shatty
Gunnar-Borts

Elliott between the pipes and Allen on the bench

Berglund, Paajarvi, Butler in the press box

It's clear the team intends to move forward with Allen as the starter, at least that's how I see it.

Berglund won't be sitting. He averages 19 goals a season. Those types of players aren't press box material.

MissouriMook wrote:About two months from training camp and here are a few thoughts:

Backes - I'm still on the fence about the trade him/keep him issue. I'm hopeful that he'll come around to a Steen-like extension, so I'm assuming for the time being that he's not going anywhere. If that holds true, in my mind Hitch has to decide whether he's a shut down center or a primary source of offense. The time has passed for him to be both. I think he would excel in either role, but Hitch needs to pick one. If he's to be driving offense, put him on RW with Stastny. If he's going to be our shut down guy, he needs to be centering the 3rd line.

Stastny - Play him. A lot. Period. My preference would be to have him paired with Tarasenko, but depending on how Backes' usage is determined, I'm fine if they keep 12-91 as a pair. But for crying out loud if you're putting 12-91 together put 17-26 together and leave them alone. Wasting another season of Stastny with inferior linemates is inexcusable.

Jaskin/Fabbri/Rattie/Paajarvi - The way I see it, and assuming no other roster moves before camp, these four are fighting for two spots in the lineup. Even if it means that two of them (excluding Fabbri) have to be sent to Chicago, so be it.

Berglund - At 27, Berglund is what he is. With the right role, he can be useful, but the thought of him being a dynamic player in the NHL is pretty much gone now. If he's being kept around as Top 9 insurance, I can't see giving him minutes ahead of any young player who has earned the chance. We could very easily see Bergy playing out the string for the next two seasons and then being allowed to walk, because frankly if anyone was willing to offer anything of value for him he would be gone by now. At this point, he is a spare part and should see plenty of time on the 4th line and in the press box if kids are earning meaningful minutes.

There are only two months until camp, but it will seem like forever so this is subject to change, but here is the lineup I would like to see on opening night based on what I know today:

Schwartz-Stastny-Backes
Steen-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Fabbri-Brouwer-Jaskin
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves

JBo-Petro
Lindbohm-Shatty
Gunnar-Borts

Elliott between the pipes and Allen on the bench

Berglund, Paajarvi, Butler in the press box

Spot on Mook, except yeah I would probably rather see Berglund ahead of Ott for that position. But realistically, if Fabbri gets a 9-game trial we will have a quality NHL player sitting on the bench. I would be fine with that if the players rotate in and out of the lineup. But Hitch never uses that strategy so we'll see.

HockeyFan85 wrote:

MissouriMook wrote: Schwartz-Stastny-Backes
Steen-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Fabbri-Brouwer-Jaskin
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves

JBo-Petro
Lindbohm-Shatty
Gunnar-Borts

Elliott between the pipes and Allen on the bench

Berglund, Paajarvi, Butler in the press box

It's clear the team intends to move forward with Allen as the starter, at least that's how I see it.

Berglund won't be sitting. He averages 19 goals a season. Those types of players aren't press box material.

I agree. Bergy will either be traded, or he will be a starter here.

As much as I respect Elliott, I think the Blues have no choice but to hand the starting reins to Allen. It's time to see if he's the future or not, so we don't go into the playoffs with that question in the air.

If you aren't going to start Allen...then why the hell do you have him.

If Allen isn't starting next year and we start the year with Backes, Steen, Berglund, the same blueline, Hitch, and Elliott in net WHY WOULD THERE BE ANY CHANGE FROM LAST SEASON

39hurricane wrote:Those are really good lines. I would not hesitate to swap Berglund for Ott.

With all of these pieces there has to be a move Army can make. I guess the potential return is not good enough.

I agree with this. I'd play Berglund on LW on The 4th Line, before using Ott as a regular. I don't like Ott's overall play at all anymore.

Listened to a bit of the caravan show. Hitch talked about Edmunson and Parayko coming to camp and showing what they can do. That they planned to send Fabbri down after the first exhibition game but that he played so well he kept earning another game. Might have made the team if hadn't gotten injured. Talked about Bo, Gunnerson and Shattenkirk playing injured. Only listened to a bit.

With Berglund out it gives MPS a chance to earn a spot. I'd like to see him on the 4th line instead of Ott. He just isn't much of a finisher. On the 4th line he can offer speed and he has good size. If he commits himself to the checking line he could become a top checking forward who can chip in 8-12 goals. Would make for an interesting line.