Ozzies09tc wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:43 pm

Turk Sanderson wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:24 pm

Ozzies09tc wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:40 pm
Oh for sure. I wasn't trying to say anyone was talking down about him as a person. I was curious what round he was drafted as to know his "ceiling/consistentcy/basement" and was... largely surprised.

I don't hate him ... i don't know him well enough to hate him... i hate the fact that he's on this team... should have left him exposed and kept Dunn...sure he can qb a power play, but he gets tossed around like a rodeo clown the rest of the time.

We couldn't bc of the glorious NTC handed to him.
He can veto teams to go to (limited or not is moot)
Every gripe we have about this team, is mostly contracts, and it's going to have a scapegoat as the fault

They could have exposed him if they wanted. He had a no trade clause, not a no move clause, at least thats what i recall. He'd just finished an injury shortened season in which he ran one of the league's best PPs when healthy. He was good the next year too, and he and Faulk were the team's best pair, but again...missed time with injury. Last year his performance fell off a cliff.

There were a few that wanted to leave him exposed, but they were in the minority.

I don't recall a lot of remorse when Dunn was picked. We were resigned to it, more or less.

BluesSK wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:07 pm I don't recall a lot of remorse when Dunn was picked. We were resigned to it, more or less.

Yeah, Dunn was the obvious pick for a building block. Tarasenko was the obvious choice if they wanted to win quick or have a trade chip.

Dave's a mess wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:28 pm

Ozzies09tc wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:43 pm

Turk Sanderson wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:24 pm

I don't hate him ... i don't know him well enough to hate him... i hate the fact that he's on this team... should have left him exposed and kept Dunn...sure he can qb a power play, but he gets tossed around like a rodeo clown the rest of the time.

We couldn't bc of the glorious NTC handed to him.
He can veto teams to go to (limited or not is moot)
Every gripe we have about this team, is mostly contracts, and it's going to have a scapegoat as the fault

They could have exposed him if they wanted. He had a no trade clause, not a no move clause, at least thats what i recall. He'd just finished an injury shortened season in which he ran one of the league's best PPs when healthy. He was good the next year too, and he and Faulk were the team's best pair, but again...missed time with injury. Last year his performance fell off a cliff.

There were a few that wanted to leave him exposed, but they were in the minority.

I'll have to look up the extension of the rules, but, i believe every player with an NTC or NMC was exempt from the expansion (running to google now)

Ozzies09tc wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:52 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:28 pm

Ozzies09tc wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:43 pm
We couldn't bc of the glorious NTC handed to him.
He can veto teams to go to (limited or not is moot)
Every gripe we have about this team, is mostly contracts, and it's going to have a scapegoat as the fault

They could have exposed him if they wanted. He had a no trade clause, not a no move clause, at least thats what i recall. He'd just finished an injury shortened season in which he ran one of the league's best PPs when healthy. He was good the next year too, and he and Faulk were the team's best pair, but again...missed time with injury. Last year his performance fell off a cliff.

There were a few that wanted to leave him exposed, but they were in the minority.

I'll have to look up the extension of the rules, but, i believe every player with an NTC or NMC was exempt from the expansion (running to google now)

He was on the protected list.

Ozzies09tc wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:52 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:28 pm

Ozzies09tc wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:43 pm
We couldn't bc of the glorious NTC handed to him.
He can veto teams to go to (limited or not is moot)
Every gripe we have about this team, is mostly contracts, and it's going to have a scapegoat as the fault

They could have exposed him if they wanted. He had a no trade clause, not a no move clause, at least thats what i recall. He'd just finished an injury shortened season in which he ran one of the league's best PPs when healthy. He was good the next year too, and he and Faulk were the team's best pair, but again...missed time with injury. Last year his performance fell off a cliff.

There were a few that wanted to leave him exposed, but they were in the minority.

I'll have to look up the extension of the rules, but, i believe every player with an NTC or NMC was exempt from the expansion (running to google now)

Only NMC, I believe.

The blues don’t currently have 3 d-men you’d protect if an expansion draft was happening. And I don’t mean that as hyperbole. You’d protect Faulk, beyond that MAYBE Parayko.

Turk Sanderson wrote:

Ozzies09tc wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:52 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:28 pm They could have exposed him if they wanted. He had a no trade clause, not a no move clause, at least thats what i recall. He'd just finished an injury shortened season in which he ran one of the league's best PPs when healthy. He was good the next year too, and he and Faulk were the team's best pair, but again...missed time with injury. Last year his performance fell off a cliff.

There were a few that wanted to leave him exposed, but they were in the minority.

I'll have to look up the extension of the rules, but, i believe every player with an NTC or NMC was exempt from the expansion (running to google now)

He was on the protected list.

There's no doubt, no expansion draft, no Krug. Dunn stays and maybe paired with Faulk he hits his stride here. But who knows, I think he might of been trade bait at that time anyway. He was struggling here. But no doubt, he had a great year last year and is a more robust D man than Krug now.
The thing that ticks me off, I had posted on HF Boards on the Bruins site about the Shattenkirk acquisition cause I am a Shattenkirk fan. I had mentioned that Krug doesn't have the same explosive slap shot here in STL like he did in Boston. Some Boston fan responded back saying his slapper was never the same after he had surgery. So when I heard that, it's like what are we doing? He's still a good player and I have faith in him that he's going to play well, but still, if you aren't getting the same player that was playing at a high level in his earlier years then stay away.

The statement is "I'm retiring". Great, great run.

From NHL record setting season to no playoffs the following year. Now that's a ride.

BillP. wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:10 pm From NHL record setting season to no playoffs the following year. Now that's a ride.

It's certainly possible. Most didn't even have them as a playoff team last year.

Aho signs 8-year, $78 million contract with Hurricanes
Forward gets $9.75 million annually for deal that begins next season

The Hurricanes also signed UFA defensemen Tony DeAngelo (one year, $1.675 million) and Dmitry Orlov (two years, $15.5 million), and forwards Michael Bunting (three years, $13.5 million) and Brendan Lemieux (one year, $800,000), during the offseason.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:12 am

BillP. wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:10 pm From NHL record setting season to no playoffs the following year. Now that's a ride.

It's certainly possible. Most didn't even have them as a playoff team last year.

I think they'll be fine. Tampa is getting another year older and I don't know what to think about Toronto. I don't think they're going to set records next year, but I think they'll still have enough to finish in the top 3 of that division. They may end up adding a player of note between now and the start of the season too if they wind up trading one of their goalies. Still, losing the greatest defensive forward of the post-original six era will probably hurt.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:22 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:12 am

BillP. wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:10 pm From NHL record setting season to no playoffs the following year. Now that's a ride.

It's certainly possible. Most didn't even have them as a playoff team last year.

I think they'll be fine. Tampa is getting another year older and I don't know what to think about Toronto. I don't think they're going to set records next year, but I think they'll still have enough to finish in the top 3 of that division. They may end up adding a player of note between now and the start of the season too if they wind up trading one of their goalies. Still, losing the greatest defensive forward of the post-original six era will probably hurt.

Their current center depth is borderline non-existent at this point.

Salary cap circumventing season is in full swing

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:22 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:12 am It's certainly possible. Most didn't even have them as a playoff team last year.

I think they'll be fine. Tampa is getting another year older and I don't know what to think about Toronto. I don't think they're going to set records next year, but I think they'll still have enough to finish in the top 3 of that division. They may end up adding a player of note between now and the start of the season too if they wind up trading one of their goalies. Still, losing the greatest defensive forward of the post-original six era will probably hurt.

Their current center depth is borderline non-existent at this point.

Marchand turned 35 in May. If he loses it, it'll be ugly in Beantown.

BillP. wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:51 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:22 am

I think they'll be fine. Tampa is getting another year older and I don't know what to think about Toronto. I don't think they're going to set records next year, but I think they'll still have enough to finish in the top 3 of that division. They may end up adding a player of note between now and the start of the season too if they wind up trading one of their goalies. Still, losing the greatest defensive forward of the post-original six era will probably hurt.

Their current center depth is borderline non-existent at this point.

Marchand turned 35 in May. If he loses it, it'll be ugly in Beantown.

Pasta and goaltending can take a team a long way but yeah, they really are at a cross roads.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:49 am

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:22 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:12 am

It's certainly possible. Most didn't even have them as a playoff team last year.

I think they'll be fine. Tampa is getting another year older and I don't know what to think about Toronto. I don't think they're going to set records next year, but I think they'll still have enough to finish in the top 3 of that division. They may end up adding a player of note between now and the start of the season too if they wind up trading one of their goalies. Still, losing the greatest defensive forward of the post-original six era will probably hurt.

Their current center depth is borderline non-existent at this point.

They should trade for Krug and put him in the middle of Marchand and Pastrnak.

Rocky Wirtz croaked yesterday... doesn't rate getting in my R.I.P. thread

One year $5M.

Who could have imagined this a couple of seasons ago? Kinda feel bad for the guy.

BluesSK wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:22 pm One year $5M.

Who could have imagined this a couple of seasons ago? Kinda feel bad for the guy.

There’s a lot of blame to go around, mostly on the Blues management end.

Turk Sanderson wrote:

BluesSK wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:22 pm One year $5M.

Who could have imagined this a couple of seasons ago? Kinda feel bad for the guy.

There’s a lot of blame to go around, mostly on the Blues management end.

Maybe... but I highly doubt the Blues would purposefully botch a shoulder surgery on their best scorer. Medical issues are not always cut and dry. And when you invest millions in a player, I could see why a team would want to use and trust their own doctors versus a player's doctor.
It was definitely a strange situation though. I don't necessarily blame either side really. I see both perspectives.

It's really odd to see all of these players with other teams - DP, ROR, Tank, Schwartz... And as much as last year was painful missing the playoffs, I think it was the best think that could have happened for this franchise. They went from a pretty depleted farm system to being pretty stacked. They could have probably treaded water for a few more years, but I'm pumped for the future. 3 years from now this roster could be really stacked.

BluesSK wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:22 pm One year $5M.

Who could have imagined this a couple of seasons ago? Kinda feel bad for the guy.

It’s the way of this off-season with the flat cap. Everyone is signing 1 year deals and will hit the market again next year when it goes up by around 5 or so. Well, everyone but MacMac

MattyIce wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:10 am

Turk Sanderson wrote:

BluesSK wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:22 pm One year $5M.

Who could have imagined this a couple of seasons ago? Kinda feel bad for the guy.

There’s a lot of blame to go around, mostly on the Blues management end.

Maybe... but I highly doubt the Blues would purposefully botch a shoulder surgery on their best scorer. Medical issues are not always cut and dry. And when you invest millions in a player, I could see why a team would want to use and trust their own doctors versus a player's doctor.
It was definitely a strange situation though. I don't necessarily blame either side really. I see both perspectives.

It's really odd to see all of these players with other teams - DP, ROR, Tank, Schwartz... And as much as last year was painful missing the playoffs, I think it was the best think that could have happened for this franchise. They went from a pretty depleted farm system to being pretty stacked. They could have probably treaded water for a few more years, but I'm pumped for the future. 3 years from now this roster could be really stacked.

They botched his shoulder twice.., Brown and Crouppen probably rings his phone off the wall.

Turk Sanderson wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:22 am

MattyIce wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:10 am

Turk Sanderson wrote:
There’s a lot of blame to go around, mostly on the Blues management end.

Maybe... but I highly doubt the Blues would purposefully botch a shoulder surgery on their best scorer. Medical issues are not always cut and dry. And when you invest millions in a player, I could see why a team would want to use and trust their own doctors versus a player's doctor.
It was definitely a strange situation though. I don't necessarily blame either side really. I see both perspectives.

It's really odd to see all of these players with other teams - DP, ROR, Tank, Schwartz... And as much as last year was painful missing the playoffs, I think it was the best think that could have happened for this franchise. They went from a pretty depleted farm system to being pretty stacked. They could have probably treaded water for a few more years, but I'm pumped for the future. 3 years from now this roster could be really stacked.

They botched his shoulder twice.., Brown and Crouppen probably rings his phone off the wall.

while I know this to be the narrative, I've never put time into looking into this.

I started googling things (using google chrome/google...maybe bing has different results?) but I can't find anything that shows how the surgery(ies) were "botched".
I understand he had to have the same surgery, 3 times, year after year, but the sport he plays in is VERY physical, the shoulder being a VERY used appendage and thus more susceptible to damage/abuse, but if a team is paying a player X million dollars a year, I understand the argument of "rushing them back" but on the flip side if I'm paying a player X million dollars a year I'd want them performing at what I'm paying them for.

TL;DR - were the surgeries really botched, was tarasenko rushed back after surgery, or is this a scape-goat for tank wanting out of stl bc he wasnt captain?

Turk Sanderson wrote:

MattyIce wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:10 am

Turk Sanderson wrote: There’s a lot of blame to go around, mostly on the Blues management end.

Maybe... but I highly doubt the Blues would purposefully botch a shoulder surgery on their best scorer. Medical issues are not always cut and dry. And when you invest millions in a player, I could see why a team would want to use and trust their own doctors versus a player's doctor.
It was definitely a strange situation though. I don't necessarily blame either side really. I see both perspectives.

It's really odd to see all of these players with other teams - DP, ROR, Tank, Schwartz... And as much as last year was painful missing the playoffs, I think it was the best think that could have happened for this franchise. They went from a pretty depleted farm system to being pretty stacked. They could have probably treaded water for a few more years, but I'm pumped for the future. 3 years from now this roster could be really stacked.

They botched his shoulder twice.., Brown and Crouppen probably rings his phone off the wall.

Army wasn't going to bring him back anyway, shoulder or not. No way Army locks him in to an extension. It all worked out fine IMO. Maybe not for Tarasenko but that's his problem. He got paid well in STL. Happy trails.............