I don't think we are world-beaters either.BlueinNy wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:51 pmLooking at our forwards shouldn't put the fear of Jesus in anybody either.Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:27 am https://www.nhl.com/predators/roster
On paper, they don't look intimidating at all
Which will end up getting Berube fired, even if he isn't the one handing out outlandish contracts.BluesSK wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:12 pmYep. If Thomas and Kyrou don't play like they are paid we are gonna be in a world of hurt.BlueinNy wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:51 pmLooking at our forwards shouldn't put the fear of Jesus in anybody either.Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:27 am https://www.nhl.com/predators/roster
On paper, they don't look intimidating at all
Ozzies09tc wrote:I don't think we are world-beaters either.BlueinNy wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:51 pmLooking at our forwards shouldn't put the fear of Jesus in anybody either.Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:27 am https://www.nhl.com/predators/roster
On paper, they don't look intimidating at all
But I do believe we will have more points at the end of the season than Nashville. (Even if it's only 1 point!)
The Blues don't have the high end talent of some teams, but what I think they DO have is depth. All four lines can score on this team. That was the strength of the 19 team as well.BlueinNy wrote:Looking at our forwards shouldn't put the fear of Jesus in anybody either.Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:27 am https://www.nhl.com/predators/roster
On paper, they don't look intimidating at all
Depth upfront is definitely the strength of this team. That '19 team was special with 9 guys being 20 goal scorers. This team doesn't have that same kind of depth, but the ability to role 4 lines is crucial.MattyIce wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:06 amThe Blues don't have the high end talent of some teams, but what I think they DO have is depth. All four lines can score on this team. That was the strength of the 19 team as well.BlueinNy wrote:Looking at our forwards shouldn't put the fear of Jesus in anybody either.Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:27 am https://www.nhl.com/predators/roster
On paper, they don't look intimidating at all
I would say there are a ton of teams that would like forwards like Buch, Schenn, Kyrou, Thomas, Saad, Hayes. If Vrana and Kap produce, thats a pretty damn deep group. Especially with Sunny and Blais rounding out the 4th line.
I'll get the pessimism out of the way early. The strength of this team certainly is forward depth, but I think expectations for a few of the newer guys are being overblown. Kapanen wasn't a world beater when he got to St. Louis, he was on a sub-50 point pace. Maybe he can sustain that pace over a whole season, but he wasn't an All-Star. Vrana is interesting given his off ice issues hopefully being resolved, but he hasn't had a full season since the Covid shortened season (I'm counting the 69 games he played that year as close enough). We'll see how Hayes adjusts to the new team, but he is certainly a much needed legit middle six C. The problem I have is that there are a few guys I trust to provide offense (Kyrou, Thomas, Buch), then a whollllllllllle bunch of "well if everything goes right they'll be a good second liner", but the floor is much lower.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:26 amDepth upfront is definitely the strength of this team. That '19 team was special with 9 guys being 20 goal scorers. This team doesn't have that same kind of depth, but the ability to role 4 lines is crucial.MattyIce wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:06 amThe Blues don't have the high end talent of some teams, but what I think they DO have is depth. All four lines can score on this team. That was the strength of the 19 team as well.BlueinNy wrote:
Looking at our forwards shouldn't put the fear of Jesus in anybody either.
I would say there are a ton of teams that would like forwards like Buch, Schenn, Kyrou, Thomas, Saad, Hayes. If Vrana and Kap produce, thats a pretty damn deep group. Especially with Sunny and Blais rounding out the 4th line.
IF everything falls together perfectly and health is on our side, then I could see 7, maybe 8 20 goal scorers though, but that's asking a lot of Hayes and Kapanen. It's also just taking for granted Vrana can get to a number he hasn't reached in 4 seasons.
Oh this team has a ton of questions marks for sure. Thats why the wide ranging opinions of how this team will do. From Bill thinking the Blues are the 90's red wings to me thinking we will be lucky to be a playoff team.Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:10 amI'll get the pessimism out of the way early. The strength of this team certainly is forward depth, but I think expectations for a few of the newer guys are being overblown. Kapanen wasn't a world beater when he got to St. Louis, he was on a sub-50 point pace. Maybe he can sustain that pace over a whole season, but he wasn't an All-Star. Vrana is interesting given his off ice issues hopefully being resolved, but he hasn't had a full season since the Covid shortened season (I'm counting the 69 games he played that year as close enough). We'll see how Hayes adjusts to the new team, but he is certainly a much needed legit middle six C. The problem I have is that there are a few guys I trust to provide offense (Kyrou, Thomas, Buch), then a whollllllllllle bunch of "well if everything goes right they'll be a good second liner", but the floor is much lower.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:26 amDepth upfront is definitely the strength of this team. That '19 team was special with 9 guys being 20 goal scorers. This team doesn't have that same kind of depth, but the ability to role 4 lines is crucial.MattyIce wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:06 am
The Blues don't have the high end talent of some teams, but what I think they DO have is depth. All four lines can score on this team. That was the strength of the 19 team as well.
I would say there are a ton of teams that would like forwards like Buch, Schenn, Kyrou, Thomas, Saad, Hayes. If Vrana and Kap produce, thats a pretty damn deep group. Especially with Sunny and Blais rounding out the 4th line.
IF everything falls together perfectly and health is on our side, then I could see 7, maybe 8 20 goal scorers though, but that's asking a lot of Hayes and Kapanen. It's also just taking for granted Vrana can get to a number he hasn't reached in 4 seasons.
The reason the forward depth is seen as a strength is simply because the D and goaltending were so bad last year. The good news is, I'm guessing they bottomed out last year and have to be at least marginally better. I think the team will be better overall this season, but I'm not going in with playoff expectations. Playoff hopes, sure, but not expectations.
Love Schenn. Just hope he doesn't lose a step. Looking at the forwards you see the departure in style from the Cup team and the preceding era. Besides Buchenevich, there are pretty much zero sure thing 2 way forwards. Schenn still fits in that category but he's not what he was in those years. Schwartz, ROR, Barbashev, Bozak, Steen were all good to great in their own end and provided offense as well. You hope Thomas gets there, but last year was shaky on that front. Some of the kids may develop that side of their game, but again, lots of question marks.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:56 amOh this team has a ton of questions marks for sure. Thats why the wide ranging opinions of how this team will do. From Bill thinking the Blues are the 90's red wings to me thinking we will be lucky to be a playoff team.Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:10 amI'll get the pessimism out of the way early. The strength of this team certainly is forward depth, but I think expectations for a few of the newer guys are being overblown. Kapanen wasn't a world beater when he got to St. Louis, he was on a sub-50 point pace. Maybe he can sustain that pace over a whole season, but he wasn't an All-Star. Vrana is interesting given his off ice issues hopefully being resolved, but he hasn't had a full season since the Covid shortened season (I'm counting the 69 games he played that year as close enough). We'll see how Hayes adjusts to the new team, but he is certainly a much needed legit middle six C. The problem I have is that there are a few guys I trust to provide offense (Kyrou, Thomas, Buch), then a whollllllllllle bunch of "well if everything goes right they'll be a good second liner", but the floor is much lower.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:26 am
Depth upfront is definitely the strength of this team. That '19 team was special with 9 guys being 20 goal scorers. This team doesn't have that same kind of depth, but the ability to role 4 lines is crucial.
IF everything falls together perfectly and health is on our side, then I could see 7, maybe 8 20 goal scorers though, but that's asking a lot of Hayes and Kapanen. It's also just taking for granted Vrana can get to a number he hasn't reached in 4 seasons.
The reason the forward depth is seen as a strength is simply because the D and goaltending were so bad last year. The good news is, I'm guessing they bottomed out last year and have to be at least marginally better. I think the team will be better overall this season, but I'm not going in with playoff expectations. Playoff hopes, sure, but not expectations.
FWIW, Kapenen had a 30 goal pace in his 23 games with the Blues, which is where the optimism comes in. I don't think that's doable as his shot % was well above his career average, but if things fall right, 20 isn't completely out of the question.
I'd add Schenn to that trust list as he's had at least 50 points in every non-Covid season since 2015-16.
That's fair.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:45 am Kyrou and Thomas are the 60th(!!) highest played players in the NHL on AAV. The idea that they aren't performing up to what they are paid is rubbish imo. There's certainly things they can improve on, but they aren't underperforming. They aren't going to be McDavid, Matthews, McKinnon or any other of the elite guys whose names start with an M.
All our hopes ride on Toropchenko.Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:50 amLove Schenn. Just hope he doesn't lose a step. Looking at the forwards you see the departure in style from the Cup team and the preceding era. Besides Buchenevich, there are pretty much zero sure thing 2 way forwards. Schenn still fits in that category but he's not what he was in those years. Schwartz, ROR, Barbashev, Bozak, Steen were all good to great in their own end and provided offense as well. You hope Thomas gets there, but last year was shaky on that front. Some of the kids may develop that side of their game, but again, lots of question marks.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:56 amOh this team has a ton of questions marks for sure. Thats why the wide ranging opinions of how this team will do. From Bill thinking the Blues are the 90's red wings to me thinking we will be lucky to be a playoff team.Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:10 am
I'll get the pessimism out of the way early. The strength of this team certainly is forward depth, but I think expectations for a few of the newer guys are being overblown. Kapanen wasn't a world beater when he got to St. Louis, he was on a sub-50 point pace. Maybe he can sustain that pace over a whole season, but he wasn't an All-Star. Vrana is interesting given his off ice issues hopefully being resolved, but he hasn't had a full season since the Covid shortened season (I'm counting the 69 games he played that year as close enough). We'll see how Hayes adjusts to the new team, but he is certainly a much needed legit middle six C. The problem I have is that there are a few guys I trust to provide offense (Kyrou, Thomas, Buch), then a whollllllllllle bunch of "well if everything goes right they'll be a good second liner", but the floor is much lower.
The reason the forward depth is seen as a strength is simply because the D and goaltending were so bad last year. The good news is, I'm guessing they bottomed out last year and have to be at least marginally better. I think the team will be better overall this season, but I'm not going in with playoff expectations. Playoff hopes, sure, but not expectations.
FWIW, Kapenen had a 30 goal pace in his 23 games with the Blues, which is where the optimism comes in. I don't think that's doable as his shot % was well above his career average, but if things fall right, 20 isn't completely out of the question.
I'd add Schenn to that trust list as he's had at least 50 points in every non-Covid season since 2015-16.
But Kyrou had more goals than everyone on that list except Draisaitl and Kyrou certainly isn't on a line and PP unit with McDavid.Ozzies09tc wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:10 pmThat's fair.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:45 am Kyrou and Thomas are the 60th(!!) highest played players in the NHL on AAV. The idea that they aren't performing up to what they are paid is rubbish imo. There's certainly things they can improve on, but they aren't underperforming. They aren't going to be McDavid, Matthews, McKinnon or any other of the elite guys whose names start with an M.
Devil's advocate, they're in the ballpark of Crosby, Larkin, Laine, Stamkos, Draisaitl...
Also fair.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:44 pmBut Kyrou had more goals than everyone on that list except Draisaitl and Kyrou certainly isn't on a line and PP unit with McDavid.Ozzies09tc wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:10 pmThat's fair.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:45 am Kyrou and Thomas are the 60th(!!) highest played players in the NHL on AAV. The idea that they aren't performing up to what they are paid is rubbish imo. There's certainly things they can improve on, but they aren't underperforming. They aren't going to be McDavid, Matthews, McKinnon or any other of the elite guys whose names start with an M.
Devil's advocate, they're in the ballpark of Crosby, Larkin, Laine, Stamkos, Draisaitl...
The other interesting thing is, all those guys were top 15 picks, with most being top 3 picks while Kyrou was a second rounder and has been a homerun for the Blues.
Nice post! I'm definitely going to say this to my friends at some point and take credit for the research hahaDread_Pirate_Westley wrote:But Kyrou had more goals than everyone on that list except Draisaitl and Kyrou certainly isn't on a line and PP unit with McDavid.Ozzies09tc wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:10 pmThat's fair.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:45 am Kyrou and Thomas are the 60th(!!) highest played players in the NHL on AAV. The idea that they aren't performing up to what they are paid is rubbish imo. There's certainly things they can improve on, but they aren't underperforming. They aren't going to be McDavid, Matthews, McKinnon or any other of the elite guys whose names start with an M.
Devil's advocate, they're in the ballpark of Crosby, Larkin, Laine, Stamkos, Draisaitl...
The other interesting thing is, all those guys were top 15 picks, with most being top 3 picks while Kyrou was a second rounder and has been a homerun for the Blues.
Yeah he scores but he's arguably the worst defensive forward in the League. He sctoed 26 even strength goals and was a -38.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:44 pmBut Kyrou had more goals than everyone on that list except Draisaitl and Kyrou certainly isn't on a line and PP unit with McDavid.Ozzies09tc wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:10 pmThat's fair.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:45 am Kyrou and Thomas are the 60th(!!) highest played players in the NHL on AAV. The idea that they aren't performing up to what they are paid is rubbish imo. There's certainly things they can improve on, but they aren't underperforming. They aren't going to be McDavid, Matthews, McKinnon or any other of the elite guys whose names start with an M.
Devil's advocate, they're in the ballpark of Crosby, Larkin, Laine, Stamkos, Draisaitl...
The other interesting thing is, all those guys were top 15 picks, with most being top 3 picks while Kyrou was a second rounder and has been a homerun for the Blues.
Yeah, but don’t forget, the team sucked and how many minuses did he get tagged with when the goalie was pulled? Kyrou has a high, high ceiling IMO. It all comes down to how much he wants it.BluesSK wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:29 pmYeah he scores but he's arguably the worst defensive forward in the League. He sctoed 26 even strength goals and was a -38.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:44 pmBut Kyrou had more goals than everyone on that list except Draisaitl and Kyrou certainly isn't on a line and PP unit with McDavid.Ozzies09tc wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:10 pm
That's fair.
Devil's advocate, they're in the ballpark of Crosby, Larkin, Laine, Stamkos, Draisaitl...
The other interesting thing is, all those guys were top 15 picks, with most being top 3 picks while Kyrou was a second rounder and has been a homerun for the Blues.
I hope this improves.
Sure, it's definitely his area improvement needed although calling him the worst in the league is a bit harsh. He's been fine defensively every year before and it took a dip last year. He has improved as a player every single season since he came into the league so he clearly has the desire and work ethic to get better and with that now being the focus, I think he will improve that part of his game.BluesSK wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:29 pmYeah he scores but he's arguably the worst defensive forward in the League. He sctoed 26 even strength goals and was a -38.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:44 pmBut Kyrou had more goals than everyone on that list except Draisaitl and Kyrou certainly isn't on a line and PP unit with McDavid.Ozzies09tc wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:10 pm
That's fair.
Devil's advocate, they're in the ballpark of Crosby, Larkin, Laine, Stamkos, Draisaitl...
The other interesting thing is, all those guys were top 15 picks, with most being top 3 picks while Kyrou was a second rounder and has been a homerun for the Blues.
I hope this improves.
Ha yeah saw that signing this morning and it gave me flashbacks to former goalie Jason BacashihuaBillP. wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:23 am Blues getting tough on defense. Sign Biakabutuka
Biakabatuka.PNG
Touchdown Tim! That's actually his uncle. Kid probably doesn't mind contact.BillP. wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:23 am Blues getting tough on defense. Sign Biakabutuka
Biakabatuka.PNG
I can't be so confident of that until I see what The Blues do to change their defensive system, roster, and way of playing defence.Ozzies09tc wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:32 amI don't think we are world-beaters either.BlueinNy wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:51 pmLooking at our forwards shouldn't put the fear of Jesus in anybody either.Ozzies09tc wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:27 am https://www.nhl.com/predators/roster
On paper, they don't look intimidating at all
But I do believe we will have more points at the end of the season than Nashville. (Even if it's only 1 point!)
If I can't be one of those "so called" Consultants, then I'm not interested. Giving out my opinions on what the Blues need to do and having lunch with Hitch, now that's a job!!Dave's a mess wrote: Go get em gang!
