NHLTIM wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:24 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:17 pm

NHLTIM wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:55 pm

I would think the Blues want Husso playing as much as possible. If we move Allen, I would imagine we’d be looking to sign a backup to a one year deal.

But if JB50 is the starter going forward then when will Husso ever get called up if he needs to be playing as much as possible? 30 games in the NHL or 50 in the AHL. Not much difference to his development.

I’m thinking at least another year before Husso becomes the back up. Of course JB50 could be the next Jake Allen and we might need Husso next season.

Unless he totally knocks their socks off in training camp, I think Husso needs to prove he's the go to guy for an AHL team before he's ready for the NHL. Too much time lost last season is too much of a gamble for the Blues to put him in as backup in the NHL next season.

BluesSK wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:27 pm

NHLTIM wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:24 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:17 pm

But if JB50 is the starter going forward then when will Husso ever get called up if he needs to be playing as much as possible? 30 games in the NHL or 50 in the AHL. Not much difference to his development.

I’m thinking at least another year before Husso becomes the back up. Of course JB50 could be the next Jake Allen and we might need Husso next season.

Unless he totally knocks their socks off in training camp, I think Husso needs to prove he's the go to guy for an AHL team before he's ready for the NHL. Too much time lost last season is too much of a gamble for the Blues to put him in as backup in the NHL next season.

Not to be lost in the Husso conversation, he was absolutely terrible last year. He had an .871 save % last year. I know the Rampage were a mess for a big portion of the season and he was likely playing hurt, but there's no way I'm counting on that guy to be a backup in the NHL next year.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:38 pm

BluesSK wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:27 pm

NHLTIM wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:24 pm

I’m thinking at least another year before Husso becomes the back up. Of course JB50 could be the next Jake Allen and we might need Husso next season.

Unless he totally knocks their socks off in training camp, I think Husso needs to prove he's the go to guy for an AHL team before he's ready for the NHL. Too much time lost last season is too much of a gamble for the Blues to put him in as backup in the NHL next season.

Not to be lost in the Husso conversation, he was absolutely terrible last year. He had an .871 save % last year. I know the Rampage were a mess for a big portion of the season and he was likely playing hurt, but there's no way I'm counting on that guy to be a backup in the NHL next year.

And the previous two years it was over .920. The Blues waited for Bishop to "prove it" and that didn't amount to much. JB50 was being forced to "prove it" and only out of desperation was he given his chance.

Point being, AHL stats don't mean much when it comes to goalies. If they have the skill, they have the skill.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:48 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:38 pm

BluesSK wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:27 pm

Unless he totally knocks their socks off in training camp, I think Husso needs to prove he's the go to guy for an AHL team before he's ready for the NHL. Too much time lost last season is too much of a gamble for the Blues to put him in as backup in the NHL next season.

Not to be lost in the Husso conversation, he was absolutely terrible last year. He had an .871 save % last year. I know the Rampage were a mess for a big portion of the season and he was likely playing hurt, but there's no way I'm counting on that guy to be a backup in the NHL next year.

And the previous two years it was over .920. The Blues waited for Bishop to "prove it" and that didn't amount to much. JB50 was being forced to "prove it" and only out of desperation was he given his chance.

Point being, AHL stats don't mean much when it comes to goalies. If they have the skill, they have the skill.

Bishop put up a .928 in Peoria the year the Blues traded him. They knew he was probably going to be good, the just had 2 NHL goalies already and liked Allen more as a prospect, despite Allen's numbers being much worse. Binnington was perfectly average in the AHL until he got to Providence and started putting up big numbers (.926, up from .911). He did so again this year then continued to do it in the NHL (.927 in SA this year, .927 in STL regular season). I think proving it in the AHL seems to be a pretty strong indicator based on those cases. Again, maybe the numbers were just because he was injured and the team was a mess, it seems plausible. Until it's clear that's the case I don't want him backing up in the NHL.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:06 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:48 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:38 pm

Not to be lost in the Husso conversation, he was absolutely terrible last year. He had an .871 save % last year. I know the Rampage were a mess for a big portion of the season and he was likely playing hurt, but there's no way I'm counting on that guy to be a backup in the NHL next year.

And the previous two years it was over .920. The Blues waited for Bishop to "prove it" and that didn't amount to much. JB50 was being forced to "prove it" and only out of desperation was he given his chance.

Point being, AHL stats don't mean much when it comes to goalies. If they have the skill, they have the skill.

Bishop put up a .928 in Peoria the year the Blues traded him. They knew he was probably going to be good, the just had 2 NHL goalies already and liked Allen more as a prospect, despite Allen's numbers being much worse. Binnington was perfectly average in the AHL until he got to Providence and started putting up big numbers (.926, up from .911). He did so again this year then continued to do it in the NHL (.927 in SA this year, .927 in STL regular season). I think proving it in the AHL seems to be a pretty strong indicator based on those cases. Again, maybe the numbers were just because he was injured and the team was a mess, it seems plausible. Until it's clear that's the case I don't want him backing up in the NHL.

That’s exactly my point. Husso has already put up those stats in the AHL. What more does he need to prove?

Being sent to a non-NHL league year after year would get boring and make me lose my competitive edge.

Matangama wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:12 pm

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:08 pm Luongo retiring.

Pretty cool way of making the announcement!

is it? that picture essentially says he was murdered on that spot/street in gang warfare. or he's just mocking the practice. not that i think the population of gangs cross over into hockey fandom, but i'm not sure they would find that a cool picture. shrug.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:33 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:06 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:48 pm

And the previous two years it was over .920. The Blues waited for Bishop to "prove it" and that didn't amount to much. JB50 was being forced to "prove it" and only out of desperation was he given his chance.

Point being, AHL stats don't mean much when it comes to goalies. If they have the skill, they have the skill.

Bishop put up a .928 in Peoria the year the Blues traded him. They knew he was probably going to be good, the just had 2 NHL goalies already and liked Allen more as a prospect, despite Allen's numbers being much worse. Binnington was perfectly average in the AHL until he got to Providence and started putting up big numbers (.926, up from .911). He did so again this year then continued to do it in the NHL (.927 in SA this year, .927 in STL regular season). I think proving it in the AHL seems to be a pretty strong indicator based on those cases. Again, maybe the numbers were just because he was injured and the team was a mess, it seems plausible. Until it's clear that's the case I don't want him backing up in the NHL.

That’s exactly my point. Husso has already put up those stats in the AHL. What more does he need to prove?

Being sent to a non-NHL league year after year would get boring and make me lose my competitive edge.

He needs to prove his .871 was an aberration and that he's healthy. If he's kicking ass this year, sure give him a shot when the opportunity arises. I don't want to rely on a goalie who hasn't played well in over a year to make 30 starts at a level he's never seen before.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:40 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:33 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:06 pm

Bishop put up a .928 in Peoria the year the Blues traded him. They knew he was probably going to be good, the just had 2 NHL goalies already and liked Allen more as a prospect, despite Allen's numbers being much worse. Binnington was perfectly average in the AHL until he got to Providence and started putting up big numbers (.926, up from .911). He did so again this year then continued to do it in the NHL (.927 in SA this year, .927 in STL regular season). I think proving it in the AHL seems to be a pretty strong indicator based on those cases. Again, maybe the numbers were just because he was injured and the team was a mess, it seems plausible. Until it's clear that's the case I don't want him backing up in the NHL.

That’s exactly my point. Husso has already put up those stats in the AHL. What more does he need to prove?

Being sent to a non-NHL league year after year would get boring and make me lose my competitive edge.

He needs to prove his .871 was an aberration and that he's healthy. If he's kicking ass this year, sure give him a shot when the opportunity arises. I don't want to rely on a goalie who hasn't played well in over a year to make 30 starts at a level he's never seen before.

He’s already kicked ass and put up the numbers you’re wanting him to put up. Agree to disagree I guess

Not really sure what Cam Talbot proved last year.

T.C. wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:08 pm

Matangama wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:12 pm

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:08 pm Luongo retiring.

Pretty cool way of making the announcement!

is it? that picture essentially says he was murdered on that spot/street in gang warfare. or he's just mocking the practice. not that i think the population of gangs cross over into hockey fandom, but i'm not sure they would find that a cool picture. shrug.

I'm not proud of this, but your take on it kind of makes it funnier.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:56 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:40 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:33 pm

That’s exactly my point. Husso has already put up those stats in the AHL. What more does he need to prove?

Being sent to a non-NHL league year after year would get boring and make me lose my competitive edge.

He needs to prove his .871 was an aberration and that he's healthy. If he's kicking ass this year, sure give him a shot when the opportunity arises. I don't want to rely on a goalie who hasn't played well in over a year to make 30 starts at a level he's never seen before.

He’s already kicked ass and put up the numbers you’re wanting him to put up. Agree to disagree I guess

Not really sure what Cam Talbot proved last year.

To be clear I'm not advocating for Talbot or anyone else specifically. I absolutely see the merits your perspective and hope Husso is everything we wanted him to be before last year. Just know that your opinion is WRONG!

insideout wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:58 pm

T.C. wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:08 pm

Matangama wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:12 pm

Pretty cool way of making the announcement!

is it? that picture essentially says he was murdered on that spot/street in gang warfare. or he's just mocking the practice. not that i think the population of gangs cross over into hockey fandom, but i'm not sure they would find that a cool picture. shrug.

I'm not proud of this, but your take on it kind of makes it funnier.

pour some out for bobby lou.

T.C. wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:08 pm

Matangama wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:12 pm

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:08 pm Luongo retiring.

Pretty cool way of making the announcement!

is it? that picture essentially says he was murdered on that spot/street in gang warfare. or he's just mocking the practice. not that i think the population of gangs cross over into hockey fandom, but i'm not sure they would find that a cool picture. shrug.

You get all of that out of that picture? Damn, I must not be very cool because I didn’t know it meant any of that shit!

Matangama wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:09 pm

T.C. wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:08 pm

Matangama wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:12 pm

Pretty cool way of making the announcement!

is it? that picture essentially says he was murdered on that spot/street in gang warfare. or he's just mocking the practice. not that i think the population of gangs cross over into hockey fandom, but i'm not sure they would find that a cool picture. shrug.

You get all of that out of that picture? Damn, I must not be very cool because I didn’t know it meant any of that shit!

I thought it meant he was like an old retired housewife hanging stuff on the clothesline.

NHLTIM wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:22 pm Canucks getting hit with a 3mil recapture hit on Luongo

For anyone curious as to what Tim means here: (as I was)

https://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-b ... 1.23868432


Roberto Luongo has announced his retirement and it’s going to cost the Canucks.

The cap recapture penalty clause in the CBA, affectionately nicknamed “The Luongo Rule,” will now come into effect, hitting the Canucks with an approximately $3 million cap hit for the next three years.

The Canucks under Mike Gillis and Laurence Gilman took advantage of the structure of the NHL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement to re-sign Roberto Luongo to a long-term contract without restricting their ability to ice a Cup-contending lineup. To whit, they signed him to a 12-year deal that was heavily frontloaded: it paid Luongo $10 million in the first year of the deal, then declined sharply from there, ending with a salary of just $1 million in each of the final two years of the contract.

That structure allowed the Canucks to keep Luongo’s actual cap hit at ~$5.33 million, which was ludicrously low for a top-tier goaltender like Luongo. That, combined with Gilman’s cap wizardry, gave the Canucks a far more expensive lineup in their run to the 2011 Stanley Cup Final. It also infuriated the NHL’s head honchos.

Instead of just adding language into the CBA that prevented teams from signing similar contracts, the NHL instituted a new rule that retroactively penalized teams that benefited from contracts like Luongo’s. Backdiving deals like Luongo’s would be hit with a salary cap penalty equivalent to the amount they benefited from the lower cap hit.

Luongo has three years remaining on his contract. By the NHL’s calculations, the Canucks received a benefit of approximately $9 million while Luongo was with them. That ~$9 million is spread out over the remaining three years, hitting the Canucks with ~$3 million in a salary cap penalty in each year.

That’s not ideal, particularly as the Canucks attempt to move from rebuilding to contending. That’s $3 million that isn’t available to sign free agents or take on a bigger contract in a trade.

The actual difference in cap hit is actually closer to $2.2 million, as the Canucks still had $800,000 in retained salary from Luongo’s contract. That $800,000 is now off the books.

Luongo’s isn’t the first contract that has been hit with the cap recapture penalty — the New Jersey Devils have a cap recapture penalty of $250,000 per year through 2025 from Ilya Kovalchuk, even though Kovalchuk unretired and returned to the NHL. Luongo’s is certainly more punitive, however, as $250,000 per year does little to restrict the Devils.

Most other players that would have been eligible for a cap recapture penalty conveniently went on long-term injured reserve for the final years of their contracts, avoiding the penalty. If you read Roberto Luongo’s open letter to his fans, it certainly seems like that could have been an option for him.

“Since I had my hip surgery a couple of years ago, I've been showing up two hours before every practice and three hours before every game to work out my hip,” said Luongo in his letter. “Even at night, whether it was the night before a game or even a night off, there I was rolling out, doing strengthening exercises. My entire life revolved around recovery, strengthening and making sure I was ready to go the next day.”

That’s not Luongo’s style, however, and he certainly deserves to retire on his own terms. The Canucks salary cap definitely shouldn’t enter into the equation.

This is far from the worst-case scenario for the Canucks. That would have come if Luongo stuck it out for a couple more years and retired in 2021. In that scenario, the Canucks could have been dinged with a cap penalty of around $8.5 million.

Still, Luongo’s cap recapture penalty will still be on the books when Elias Pettersson, Quinn Hughes, and Thatcher Demko need new contracts. Depending on how this year’s free agency goes and the new contract for Brock Boeser, that could cause some problems.

Thx Ozzie

Somebody explain the Haula deal to me. I mean why and who is Roy?

BillP. wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:56 am Somebody explain the Haula deal to me. I mean why and who is Roy?

Why is cap dump, I believe the Knights are projected to be over the cap as it stands. Roy sounds like a guy who could be an effective fourth liner. I wonder if those guys went up in value a bit after folks watched Steen-Sundqvist-Barbashev dominate throughout the postseason.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:18 am

BillP. wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:56 am Somebody explain the Haula deal to me. I mean why and who is Roy?

Why is cap dump, I believe the Knights are projected to be over the cap as it stands. Roy sounds like a guy who could be an effective fourth liner. I wonder if those guys went up in value a bit after folks watched Steen-Sundqvist-Barbashev dominate throughout the postseason.

Haula is a heck of a player. You think Vegas got good value? Seems like they could of gotten a better draft pick at least. And I think Haula's cap is only 2.8M.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:04 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:56 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:40 pm

He needs to prove his .871 was an aberration and that he's healthy. If he's kicking ass this year, sure give him a shot when the opportunity arises. I don't want to rely on a goalie who hasn't played well in over a year to make 30 starts at a level he's never seen before.

He’s already kicked ass and put up the numbers you’re wanting him to put up. Agree to disagree I guess

Not really sure what Cam Talbot proved last year.

To be clear I'm not advocating for Talbot or anyone else specifically. I absolutely see the merits your perspective and hope Husso is everything we wanted him to be before last year. Just know that your opinion is WRONG!

I've never once been wrong. Sometimes I've been mistaken, but never wrong.

UFA visits are underway. Duchene visited Montreal yestereday and will visit Nashville today. Apparently Nashville is still the heavy favorite there. Meanwhile Pavelski is meeting with Dallas. Seeing Pavelski in a non-Sharks jersey would be weird.

Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:05 am UFA visits are underway. Duchene visited Montreal yestereday and will visit Nashville today. Apparently Nashville is still the heavy favorite there. Meanwhile Pavelski is meeting with Dallas. Seeing Pavelski in a non-Sharks jersey would be weird.

Dallas is already a VERY good team, obviously. Adding Pavelski and they have to become one of the top 2-3 favorites in the West.

I'd stay away from Pavelski.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:33 am

Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:05 am UFA visits are underway. Duchene visited Montreal yestereday and will visit Nashville today. Apparently Nashville is still the heavy favorite there. Meanwhile Pavelski is meeting with Dallas. Seeing Pavelski in a non-Sharks jersey would be weird.

Dallas is already a VERY good team, obviously. Adding Pavelski and they have to become one of the top 2-3 favorites in the West.

Lots to like in Dallas for sure. I worry about their D depth a bit, but they very well may have made the Cup Final this year if Jamie Benn had a blade with a normal amount of curve on it. The wildcard for Dallas is Bishop's health. If he can stay in the lineup they are going to be very tough, with or without Pavelski.

I just can't see Duchene being happy in Nashville but he's definitely gonna go where the money is at. I know Ottawa wants him back and he loved it there. As for Pavelski...I hope the Stars sign him to a 7 year deal....they will get like 2 years out of him and then that contract will be ugly for them.

Also for the first time....I don't see a real need for us at this point. I'm sure Army is going to add at least one piece though. Chiarot or Hartman would be high on my list.