Re: Cleveland Indians

#2
you forgot to put "pressured" in quotes. but yeah, what did you expect? the second companies started immediately caving to a vocal minority (many years ago now), you knew this shit was going to happen. all if it is over, johnny. and your memories of them are racist.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#4
CaptSMRT wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:22 am
Mrs Butterworth is white...but because people perceive her as racist...she is going to lose her job.
Yeah, :lol: :lol: :lol: --------they're picking on Mrs. Butterworth...........................unnnn ---- beeee ----lievable. Words can't describe the stupidity here...............

Re: Cleveland Indians

#7
Turk Sanderson wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:12 pm
Imagine that there’s a professional bocce ball league. And St Louis has a team, and the players are a bunch of Ethiopians and Bosnians, and they name them the St Louis Dagos... Think that would work?
It works for me.
St. Louis Blues 2019 Stanley Cup Champs!

"Suck a dick Johansen"

"Official Sponsor of the Legend....Jeremy Roenick"

Re: Cleveland Indians

#8
I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be insulted when they try to participate in normal society....the Red Skins, Braves, and Indians are all negative. I don't see why people fight so hard to be ignorant. It says more about society that this is even a debate....should we continue to insult an entire culture...for its entertainment value.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#9
CaptSMRT wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:25 pm
I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be insulted when they try to participate in normal society....the Red Skins, Braves, and Indians are all negative. I don't see why people fight so hard to be ignorant. It says more about society that this is even a debate....should we continue to insult an entire culture...for its entertainment value.
No race wants to be some other race's mascot...period.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#10
Turk Sanderson wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:25 pm
CaptSMRT wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:25 pm
I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be insulted when they try to participate in normal society....the Red Skins, Braves, and Indians are all negative. I don't see why people fight so hard to be ignorant. It says more about society that this is even a debate....should we continue to insult an entire culture...for its entertainment value.
No race wants to be some other race's mascot...period.
Why fight for it? I am open to any logical argument for preserving racist franchise names.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#11
CaptSMRT wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:25 pm
I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be insulted when they try to participate in normal society....the Red Skins, Braves, and Indians are all negative. I don't see why people fight so hard to be ignorant. It says more about society that this is even a debate....should we continue to insult an entire culture...for its entertainment value.
It also says a lot about society (aka, human nature) that a stand-up comedian is able to entertain an audience by insulting individuals or groups of people by use of stereotypical characterizations. Art imitates life, on a more intimate scale.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#12
JMC-STL wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:20 am
CaptSMRT wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:25 pm
I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be insulted when they try to participate in normal society....the Red Skins, Braves, and Indians are all negative. I don't see why people fight so hard to be ignorant. It says more about society that this is even a debate....should we continue to insult an entire culture...for its entertainment value.
It also says a lot about society (aka, human nature) that a stand-up comedian is able to entertain an audience by insulting individuals or groups of people by use of stereotypical characterizations. Art imitates life, on a more intimate scale.
I'm not sure there is any equivalency between what people say for entertainment and the wholesale disenfranchisement of a culture by a respected public institution like professional sports.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#13
CaptSMRT wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:14 am
JMC-STL wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:20 am
CaptSMRT wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:25 pm
I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be insulted when they try to participate in normal society....the Red Skins, Braves, and Indians are all negative. I don't see why people fight so hard to be ignorant. It says more about society that this is even a debate....should we continue to insult an entire culture...for its entertainment value.
It also says a lot about society (aka, human nature) that a stand-up comedian is able to entertain an audience by insulting individuals or groups of people by use of stereotypical characterizations. Art imitates life, on a more intimate scale.
I'm not sure there is any equivalency between what people say for entertainment and the wholesale disenfranchisement of a culture by a respected public institution like professional sports.
It's just a matter of scale.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#14
do you think that when some of these sports franchises started, over a century ago, they chose names that they thought were some kind of joke? they chose names that were supposed to strike fear into their opponents heart. names that remind people of real warriors. sure, over time they got cutesy mascots and logos as they tried to expand to be more "family friendly". but even that wasn't good enough. atlanta's fearsome chief noc-a-homa had to go in 1985. (even in the '70s, when one woke native american (an actor, so of course) brought his straw man complaint to ATL, they informed him the guy was played by an actual native american. but it wasn't the proper tribe, so the guy was still "pissed". read here.) they replaced him with a giant snork named blooper in 2018.

and yes, you're right, it does say more about society that the white people yelling about these names being offensive think the poor native americans need them for protection and to tell them what is offensive. maybe next, to make up for it, the whites will insist on sending them some tasty beverages wrapped in blankets with that message nicely crocheted on them. you know, to remind them of the last time we said we wanted to help them out.

i personally think the names were fucking stupid to begin with and shouldn't have been done originally. but complaining about them a century or so later is just patronizing at this point. ask any native american if they give two shits about these team names. in my experience, most are too busy trying to figure out how to get by on their shitty land given to them with vastly underfunded schools and little to no real education beyond grade school to give a flying fuck about this stuff. at least some of the names are trying to remind people of the real heritage of the area and once great people that ruled it. but, these days it's not ok to have any kind of heritage or pride in history unless you are a group that furthers the approved, politically-backed agenda. so it must be dismantled. i mean, good on some of the native americans for jumping on this now, in order to point out this hypocrisy, but i don't think most are genuinely hurt at this point in life by a sports team name.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#15
T.C. wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:00 am
do you think that when some of these sports franchises started, over a century ago, they chose names that they thought were some kind of joke? they chose names that were supposed to strike fear into their opponents heart. names that remind people of real warriors. sure, over time they got cutesy mascots and logos as they tried to expand to be more "family friendly". but even that wasn't good enough. atlanta's fearsome chief noc-a-homa had to go in 1985. (even in the '70s, when one woke native american (an actor, so of course) brought his straw man complaint to ATL, they informed him the guy was played by an actual native american. but it wasn't the proper tribe, so the guy was still "pissed". read here.) they replaced him with a giant snork named blooper in 2018.

and yes, you're right, it does say more about society that the white people yelling about these names being offensive think the poor native americans need them for protection and to tell them what is offensive. maybe next, to make up for it, the whites will insist on sending them some tasty beverages wrapped in blankets with that message nicely crocheted on them. you know, to remind them of the last time we said we wanted to help them out.

i personally think the names were fucking stupid to begin with and shouldn't have been done originally. but complaining about them a century or so later is just patronizing at this point. ask any native american if they give two shits about these team names. in my experience, most are too busy trying to figure out how to get by on their shitty land given to them with vastly underfunded schools and little to no real education beyond grade school to give a flying fuck about this stuff. at least some of the names are trying to remind people of the real heritage of the area and once great people that ruled it. but, these days it's not ok to have any kind of heritage or pride in history unless you are a group that furthers the approved, politically-backed agenda. so it must be dismantled. i mean, good on some of the native americans for jumping on this now, in order to point out this hypocrisy, but i don't think most are genuinely hurt at this point in life by a sports team name.
I would think the native Americans would love to have their heritage out there on the sports scene. You want to be non-existent? Go ahead, kill every name and chant out there in the sports scene and then no one will ever think about you or your nationality. People and fans take pride in those names but go ahead, that’s the new thing today, bitch about everything and anything you can today just so you can get your 15 minutes of fame. Fine, take yourself out of the American picture and no one will give you a second thought. Extinct yourselves. I’m pretty sure they will bitch about Western movies too and those will be off TV and YouTube in no time.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#16
Times change. And that Chief Wahoo logo was always a ridiculously racist depiction. Redskins are clear cut awful and need to go, never understood how it was OK to name a team the Redskins lol. Indians aren't immediately awful but the Wahoo logo puts it over the top.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#17
BillP. wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:53 am
T.C. wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:00 am
do you think that when some of these sports franchises started, over a century ago, they chose names that they thought were some kind of joke? they chose names that were supposed to strike fear into their opponents heart. names that remind people of real warriors. sure, over time they got cutesy mascots and logos as they tried to expand to be more "family friendly". but even that wasn't good enough. atlanta's fearsome chief noc-a-homa had to go in 1985. (even in the '70s, when one woke native american (an actor, so of course) brought his straw man complaint to ATL, they informed him the guy was played by an actual native american. but it wasn't the proper tribe, so the guy was still "pissed". read here.) they replaced him with a giant snork named blooper in 2018.

and yes, you're right, it does say more about society that the white people yelling about these names being offensive think the poor native americans need them for protection and to tell them what is offensive. maybe next, to make up for it, the whites will insist on sending them some tasty beverages wrapped in blankets with that message nicely crocheted on them. you know, to remind them of the last time we said we wanted to help them out.

i personally think the names were fucking stupid to begin with and shouldn't have been done originally. but complaining about them a century or so later is just patronizing at this point. ask any native american if they give two shits about these team names. in my experience, most are too busy trying to figure out how to get by on their shitty land given to them with vastly underfunded schools and little to no real education beyond grade school to give a flying fuck about this stuff. at least some of the names are trying to remind people of the real heritage of the area and once great people that ruled it. but, these days it's not ok to have any kind of heritage or pride in history unless you are a group that furthers the approved, politically-backed agenda. so it must be dismantled. i mean, good on some of the native americans for jumping on this now, in order to point out this hypocrisy, but i don't think most are genuinely hurt at this point in life by a sports team name.
I would think the native Americans would love to have their heritage out there on the sports scene. You want to be non-existent? Go ahead, kill every name and chant out there in the sports scene and then no one will ever think about you or your nationality. People and fans take pride in those names but go ahead, that’s the new thing today, bitch about everything and anything you can today just so you can get your 15 minutes of fame. Fine, take yourself out of the American picture and no one will give you a second thought. Extinct yourselves. I’m pretty sure they will bitch about Western movies too and those will be off TV and YouTube in no time.
I would avoid speaking or thinking for Native Americans. If the only way as a nation we can think of to meaningfully honor our Native Americans is through ridiculous sports team names and logos that's a sad fucking indictment. But hell, probably close to the mark and part of the reason people want to see stuff like this go.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#18
Red Skin is not a nice term, and was used to dehumanize an entire race. This is such an odd thing for people to fight over. If someone says...hay that foot ball teams name insults me and reminds my people of the terrible racism they faced in the past, the wrong response is...hey man...I find this entertaining. My fantasy football team is the Ted Skins and that don't bother me. How hard is it to see...yes this was acceptable in the past...but now with more awareness maybe change is in order. Also...the Red Skins are going to change their name due to pressure from sponsors, so they know it they are wrong, and the only reason good enough to not be racist is money. Go figure.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#21
BillP. wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:21 pm
Here’s a link where a poll of native Americans in majority said they were proud of the name Redskins. Only 9% said they were offended. So IMO, my post wasn’t far off in saying they should take pride that their heritage is out there in the sport scene. Apparently the majority do feel that way. Just sayin...........

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... on-answer/
If you read the comments here, there’s plenty of examples given here where people point out that the Native Americans have no problem with this. Like the the one comment pointed out, it’s largely white people driving the protest against the name.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#22
BillP. wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:14 am
BillP. wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:21 pm
Here’s a link where a poll of native Americans in majority said they were proud of the name Redskins. Only 9% said they were offended. So IMO, my post wasn’t far off in saying they should take pride that their heritage is out there in the sport scene. Apparently the majority do feel that way. Just sayin...........

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... on-answer/
If you read the comments here, there’s plenty of examples given here where people point out that the Native Americans have no problem with this. Like the the one comment pointed out, it’s largely white people driving the protest against the name.
If you dig deeper into the poll 9 percent chose offended but there were other options such as unhappy or indifferent or disappointed.

Also there’s this study:

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/02/2 ... kins-name/

It’s not really my place to say what’s offensive or acceptable for other people but I can say that Redskins is and always was a terrible name in my opinion.
It’s the equivalent of having a team called the Cincinnati Darkies or Seattle Yellowskins.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#23
CaptSMRT wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:06 pm
the Red Skins are going to change their name due to pressure from sponsors, so they know it they are wrong
i am completely baffled that you - especially you, as a comic - are in favor of corporations deciding what is right and wrong to say/do. companies are self-serving if they are private, shareholder-serving if public, beyond all else. they are the quickest to jump on any social event/movement and co-opt it to try to appear acceptable and onboard to do nothing more than increase sales. they do not do so out of the goodness of their heart or some sense of social consciousness. if tomorrow everyone was behind every team being forced to change their name to something native american-related, those same "sponsors" would be pulling ads from teams that refused to do so.

fucking baffled man.

Re: Cleveland Indians

#24
ratonmono wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:47 am
BillP. wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:14 am
BillP. wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:21 pm
Here’s a link where a poll of native Americans in majority said they were proud of the name Redskins. Only 9% said they were offended. So IMO, my post wasn’t far off in saying they should take pride that their heritage is out there in the sport scene. Apparently the majority do feel that way. Just sayin...........

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... on-answer/
If you read the comments here, there’s plenty of examples given here where people point out that the Native Americans have no problem with this. Like the the one comment pointed out, it’s largely white people driving the protest against the name.
If you dig deeper into the poll 9 percent chose offended but there were other options such as unhappy or indifferent or disappointed.

Also there’s this study:

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/02/2 ... kins-name/

It’s not really my place to say what’s offensive or acceptable for other people but I can say that Redskins is and always was a terrible name in my opinion.
It’s the equivalent of having a team called the Cincinnati Darkies or Seattle Yellowskins.
The current Redskin logo was created in 1971 by a Native American. Here's a copy of the story and link. Just saying society today is taking advantage of how America has gone soft and this shit will never end. It'll never be enough. People will get bored and will always look for something to bitch about. Everybody wants their 15 minutes of fame now. It's all BS IMO.

https://sportslogohistory.com/washingto ... imary-logo

The Redskins primary logo used today was first designed in 1971 in close consultation with Native American leaders. Among those who unanimously approved and voiced praise for the logo was Walter “Blackie” Wetzel, a former President of the National Congress of American Indians and Chairman of the Blackfeet Nation. Years earlier, Mr. Wetzel had been deeply involved with U.S. President John F. Kennedy in the movement for civil liberties, civil rights, and economic freedom for all. In 2014, Mr. Wetzel’s son Don commented, “It needs to be said that an Indian from the State of Montana created the Redskins logo, and did it the right way. It represents the Red Nation, and it’s something to be proud of.”

Re: Cleveland Indians

#25
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the Redskins logo it’s all about the name. I’m younger than many here so maybe it’s a generational thing but even as a kid growing up in the 90s I saw the Redskins name as wrong and always wondered how they got away with such an awful name.
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