Re: League Watch 2020

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UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:16 am This meme is getting passed around by some colleagues today, and it pretty much accurately sums up how I feel reading this thread (I'm an epidemiologist).

epimeme.jpg
I actually appreciate your input even though we see this thing differently. I guess my question would be, why don't we do this for other viruses such as the flu then?
KA-KAW!

Re: League Watch 2020

104
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:27 am
UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:16 am This meme is getting passed around by some colleagues today, and it pretty much accurately sums up how I feel reading this thread (I'm an epidemiologist).

epimeme.jpg
I actually appreciate your input even though we see this thing differently. I guess my question would be, why don't we do this for other viruses such as the flu then?
I posted something similar to this in the other thread. Its all about how this coronavirus is novel.

Whatever strain of the flu is going around at any given time, there is a good amount of people immune to it, because people have either gotten that strain of the flu before or they got the flu vaccine. This built in immunity in the population means that it can't spread insanely rapidly--unless its one of those years like 2009 with a very virulent strain like H1N1.

So, what happens with things like the flu--yes, lots of people get it, and yes lots of people die. But because it doesn't spread and infect as many people very fast (the totals for flu cases are built up over the entirety of winter basically), our hospitals and health care system can typically handle it.

Now, contrast this to a novel disease like COVID-19. No one in the world prior to its appearance has ever been exposed to it. There is no vaccine for it. That means that essentially no one in the population has immunity to it--a very tiny percent of people may just based off of dumb luck, because your immune system can do that sometimes, but basically no one has any immunity to it until they're exposed to it. Additionally, with no vaccine, we have no way to introduce immunity to it in the population.

Since basically no one is immune, essentially anyone who is exposed to COVID-19 will be infected, and people who are infected can infect others for 5 days before they get sick. These factors mean the disease can spread MUCH faster through the population and infect way more people (see Italy). This means that the cases will pile up in a much shorter time period compared to the flu if we don't do anything.

Cases piling up is where the problems really start. Based off of what we're seeing in other countries, a higher proportion of COVID-19 cases require ventilators and ICU stays compared to other respiratory viruses like the flu. So, if the cases pile up within a short period of time, hospitals will be quickly overwhelmed. There won't be enough ventilators, hospital beds, ICU rooms, etc to handle COVID-19 patients who need them, not even including everyone else who needs ICU beds and ventilators in hospitals (cancer patients, surgeries, etc). Estimates I've seen is that the US only has around ~1 million hospital beds--we're a country of over 300 million people.

So, the reason why we don't do this for the flu? Because the flu isn't virulent enough (typically) to infect enough people within a short period of time to completely overwhelm our healthcare system and lead to compounding problems. COVID-19 is. Exactly what I described above happened/is happening in Italy. Doctors are saying ventilators are impossible to come by over there. With all of that said, I absolutely DO think people should take the flu more seriously! Wash your hands more, get vaccinated, hell, I even don't like shaking people's hands to greet them to be totally honest.

The end goal of all this has been branded as "flattening the curve"--the picture here is an example of that, showing two different epidemic curves, one thats a projection of if we don't do anything, ones a projection if we take preventative steps. A good proportion of us are going to get infected with this either way, especially if a vaccine isn't close. But if we can do things to spread those cases out over a longer period of time, we'll have a functioning healthcare system still and hopefully a lower mortality rate compared to other countries.

Re: League Watch 2020

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UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:46 am
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:27 am
UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:16 am This meme is getting passed around by some colleagues today, and it pretty much accurately sums up how I feel reading this thread (I'm an epidemiologist).

epimeme.jpg
I actually appreciate your input even though we see this thing differently. I guess my question would be, why don't we do this for other viruses such as the flu then?
I posted something similar to this in the other thread. Its all about how this coronavirus is novel.

Whatever strain of the flu is going around at any given time, there is a good amount of people immune to it, because people have either gotten that strain of the flu before or they got the flu vaccine. This built in immunity in the population means that it can't spread insanely rapidly--unless its one of those years like 2009 with a very virulent strain like H1N1.

So, what happens with things like the flu--yes, lots of people get it, and yes lots of people die. But because it doesn't spread and infect as many people very fast (the totals for flu cases are built up over the entirety of winter basically), our hospitals and health care system can typically handle it.

Now, contrast this to a novel disease like COVID-19. No one in the world prior to its appearance has ever been exposed to it. There is no vaccine for it. That means that essentially no one in the population has immunity to it--a very tiny percent of people may just based off of dumb luck, because your immune system can do that sometimes, but basically no one has any immunity to it until they're exposed to it. Additionally, with no vaccine, we have no way to introduce immunity to it in the population.

Since basically no one is immune, essentially anyone who is exposed to COVID-19 will be infected, and people who are infected can infect others for 5 days before they get sick. These factors mean the disease can spread MUCH faster through the population and infect way more people (see Italy). This means that the cases will pile up in a much shorter time period compared to the flu if we don't do anything.

Cases piling up is where the problems really start. Based off of what we're seeing in other countries, a higher proportion of COVID-19 cases require ventilators and ICU stays compared to other respiratory viruses like the flu. So, if the cases pile up within a short period of time, hospitals will be quickly overwhelmed. There won't be enough ventilators, hospital beds, ICU rooms, etc to handle COVID-19 patients who need them, not even including everyone else who needs ICU beds and ventilators in hospitals (cancer patients, surgeries, etc). Estimates I've seen is that the US only has around ~1 million hospital beds--we're a country of over 300 million people.

So, the reason why we don't do this for the flu? Because the flu isn't virulent enough (typically) to infect enough people within a short period of time to completely overwhelm our healthcare system and lead to compounding problems. COVID-19 is. Exactly what I described above happened/is happening in Italy. Doctors are saying ventilators are impossible to come by over there. With all of that said, I absolutely DO think people should take the flu more seriously! Wash your hands more, get vaccinated, hell, I even don't like shaking people's hands to greet them to be totally honest.

The end goal of all this has been branded as "flattening the curve"--the picture here is an example of that, showing two different epidemic curves, one thats a projection of if we don't do anything, ones a projection if we take preventative steps. A good proportion of us are going to get infected with this either way, especially if a vaccine isn't close. But if we can do things to spread those cases out over a longer period of time, we'll have a functioning healthcare system still and hopefully a lower mortality rate compared to other countries.

epicurve.jpg
Excellent summation. Thank you.

Re: League Watch 2020

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UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:46 am
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:27 am
UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:16 am This meme is getting passed around by some colleagues today, and it pretty much accurately sums up how I feel reading this thread (I'm an epidemiologist).

epimeme.jpg
I actually appreciate your input even though we see this thing differently. I guess my question would be, why don't we do this for other viruses such as the flu then?
I posted something similar to this in the other thread. Its all about how this coronavirus is novel.

Whatever strain of the flu is going around at any given time, there is a good amount of people immune to it, because people have either gotten that strain of the flu before or they got the flu vaccine. This built in immunity in the population means that it can't spread insanely rapidly--unless its one of those years like 2009 with a very virulent strain like H1N1.

So, what happens with things like the flu--yes, lots of people get it, and yes lots of people die. But because it doesn't spread and infect as many people very fast (the totals for flu cases are built up over the entirety of winter basically), our hospitals and health care system can typically handle it.

Now, contrast this to a novel disease like COVID-19. No one in the world prior to its appearance has ever been exposed to it. There is no vaccine for it. That means that essentially no one in the population has immunity to it--a very tiny percent of people may just based off of dumb luck, because your immune system can do that sometimes, but basically no one has any immunity to it until they're exposed to it. Additionally, with no vaccine, we have no way to introduce immunity to it in the population.

Since basically no one is immune, essentially anyone who is exposed to COVID-19 will be infected, and people who are infected can infect others for 5 days before they get sick. These factors mean the disease can spread MUCH faster through the population and infect way more people (see Italy). This means that the cases will pile up in a much shorter time period compared to the flu if we don't do anything.

Cases piling up is where the problems really start. Based off of what we're seeing in other countries, a higher proportion of COVID-19 cases require ventilators and ICU stays compared to other respiratory viruses like the flu. So, if the cases pile up within a short period of time, hospitals will be quickly overwhelmed. There won't be enough ventilators, hospital beds, ICU rooms, etc to handle COVID-19 patients who need them, not even including everyone else who needs ICU beds and ventilators in hospitals (cancer patients, surgeries, etc). Estimates I've seen is that the US only has around ~1 million hospital beds--we're a country of over 300 million people.

So, the reason why we don't do this for the flu? Because the flu isn't virulent enough (typically) to infect enough people within a short period of time to completely overwhelm our healthcare system and lead to compounding problems. COVID-19 is. Exactly what I described above happened/is happening in Italy. Doctors are saying ventilators are impossible to come by over there. With all of that said, I absolutely DO think people should take the flu more seriously! Wash your hands more, get vaccinated, hell, I even don't like shaking people's hands to greet them to be totally honest.

The end goal of all this has been branded as "flattening the curve"--the picture here is an example of that, showing two different epidemic curves, one thats a projection of if we don't do anything, ones a projection if we take preventative steps. A good proportion of us are going to get infected with this either way, especially if a vaccine isn't close. But if we can do things to spread those cases out over a longer period of time, we'll have a functioning healthcare system still and hopefully a lower mortality rate compared to other countries.

epicurve.jpg
Well spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
KA-KAW!

Re: League Watch 2020

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MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
The thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).

On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.

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UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 am
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
The thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).

On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
I'm slightly confused about that myself. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this entire thing is somehow greatly effecting the supply of TP. Not sure if it's the factory or the shipping from overseas.

Either that or people are just so scared that they are shitting their pants all day long :lol:
KA-KAW!

Re: League Watch 2020

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UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 am
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
The thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).

On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
Thanks for your well researched and reasoned write up on the virus. I'd like to see more information from the media like that.

As far as the toilet paper thing; panic, a herd mentality and Facebook are a powerful psychological weapon.

Edit: People just aren't educated enough. They are easily duped.

A person I know was complaining on Facebook about people panic buying toilet paper. But what did she do the very next day when the store restocked? Yes, you guessed it. Instead of just buying the normal amount she was compelled by her flawed reasoning processes to load up on toilet paper.
Last edited by BluesSK on Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: League Watch 2020

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BluesSK wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:15 am
UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 am
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
The thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).

On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
Thanks for your well researched and reasoned write up on the virus. I'd like to see more information from the media like that.

As far as the toilet paper thing; panic, a herd mentality and Facebook are a powerful psychological weapon.
Thank you. Although honestly thats not really researched--thats all knowledge from assorted epidemiology/stats/public health courses from when I got my master's degree, plus experience in the field. Part of the reason you're not seeing stuff like this in the media is the media doesn't know who to interview during times like this. When there's a health problem, everyone assumes the experts is people with "MD" after there name. They are experts in a lot of cases, but quite honestly MD's don't know jack shit about epidemics. So much of a physician's training is about case management for an individual patient that they don't really learn anything about public health science. Infectious disease epidemiologists (who'll usually have MPH or PhD after their names) are the people the media should be interviewing. I have seen the top infectious epi from Harvard interviewed a few times though.

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Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?

As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:

IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.

Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.

Peace and be safe everyone.
"Do Only Good Everyday"

Re: League Watch 2020

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UMSLBlues12 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 am
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 amWell spoken... thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
I still have my beliefs/theories about the origins about the virus and it's purpose TBH. I still think that there is something else going on here other than a virus popping up and halting everything across the globe. But, I think you swayed me a bit on the national quarantine we are currently in.
The thing I'd like to add is even with everything I've talked about most of us only need to minimally change our lives here to prevent rapid spread. Better hygiene, trying to avoid touching your face, etc, shouldn't be that big of a deal! Sports being gone and what not absolutely sucks, but we should be avoiding big crowds. Avoiding big crowds for awhile and better hygiene is really all we've got to change--I'm not changing my life personally much at all, besides from skipping out on going to the gym (where everyone is touching everything, plus I'm always good with an excuse to skip the gym!).

On a different note, who told people to buy all the toilet paper? I'm so confused about that.
My question this whole time has been, ok, things are shut down, how is the timing determined? i.e. we shut everything down for 2 weeks (just to throw a number out there) everything is deemed ok, everything goes back to normal, and then the infection starts to spread. How did they know to do it now?

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netboy65 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:12 am My question this whole time has been, ok, things are shut down, how is the timing determined? i.e. we shut everything down for 2 weeks (just to throw a number out there) everything is deemed ok, everything goes back to normal, and then the infection starts to spread. How did they know to do it now?
Timing is difficult to determine. In an epidemic scenario, what often happens is you sit there and realize things we could have done two weeks ago that would have helped. So, people in my profession have to kind of think ahead--what could this look like in two weeks if we don't do anything, and what would we wish we would have done then? To clarify this point a bit, they're not just thinking ahead, a lot of statistics and data analysis goes into making these types of calls. An example of this (and I don't want to get too political here, but this is a bit of an inherently political topic) is the President's order to restricting travel from Europe. Personally, I think that is useless today, because the virus is already here and its spreading person to person here. Two weeks ago though? That could have been really helpful, while at the same time probably seeming like a big overreaction.

As for the timeline for how long we shut everything down for--we have to see what happens after we've had things shut down and basically look at the data (which is why testing people is so damn important) and literally play it by ear. Are new cases by day flattening? Keep doing what we're doing. Are they increasing? We might need to do even more prevention. Are they going down? Probably time that we can start easing back into normal life. The goal is to not have that scenario you mention where we shut down for a time period, then go back to normal, and it starts to rapidly spread. If that happens, we totally wasted our efforts shutting stuff down.

A lot of the projections I've seen is that things are still going to get worse, probably through mid-May at least. Its obviously up to sports folks when they start back up again, or if they play but have no crowds, etc, but typical life is going to be paused for more than two weeks for sure.

Re: League Watch 2020

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bradleygt89 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?

As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:

IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.

Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.

Peace and be safe everyone.
1st - Racism? What?

2nd - I have every right to question the validity of what our government tells us. I shouldn't have to give you insane amounts of examples to where they haven't been honest with the public. And why people would think this situation is any different is beyond me. And now people are trusting info that the Chinese government is putting out there.

3rd - Just because I question things and have certain theories, doesn't mean that I then automatically believe some dude making YouTube videos in his basement.

4th - I get what you are trying to say here, trust me. But, in my eyes, believing what I see on news and media outlets is just as bad. When you listen to their "experts" do you do any research on that individual to see if they really are an expert? When the media reports on what the government is reporting who is reporting on what the Chinese government is reporting, you can kind of see my predicament when I literally don't trust what all three parties say.
KA-KAW!

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MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:49 am
bradleygt89 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?

As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:

IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.

Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.

Peace and be safe everyone.
1st - Racism? What?

2nd - I have every right to question the validity of what our government tells us. I shouldn't have to give you insane amounts of examples to where they haven't been honest with the public. And why people would think this situation is any different is beyond me. And now people are trusting info that the Chinese government is putting out there.

3rd - Just because I question things and have certain theories, doesn't mean that I then automatically believe some dude making YouTube videos in his basement.

4th - I get what you are trying to say here, trust me. But, in my eyes, believing what I see on news and media outlets is just as bad. When you listen to their "experts" do you do any research on that individual to see if they really are an expert? When the media reports on what the government is reporting who is reporting on what the Chinese government is reporting, you can kind of see my predicament when I literally don't trust what all three parties say.
Well said and my views have nothing to do with youTubers or info wars.
Again 330 mil citizens...1250 cases or so...30 something deaths....all elderly people with other conditions.
St. Louis county just issued a state of emergency and we have just one confirmed case. Will there be more...of course.
Who remembers the media panic of of H1Z1 in 2009? Nobody because there wasn’t one. I wonder why?
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NHLTIM wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:20 pm
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:49 am
bradleygt89 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?

As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:

IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.

Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.

Peace and be safe everyone.
1st - Racism? What?

2nd - I have every right to question the validity of what our government tells us. I shouldn't have to give you insane amounts of examples to where they haven't been honest with the public. And why people would think this situation is any different is beyond me. And now people are trusting info that the Chinese government is putting out there.

3rd - Just because I question things and have certain theories, doesn't mean that I then automatically believe some dude making YouTube videos in his basement.

4th - I get what you are trying to say here, trust me. But, in my eyes, believing what I see on news and media outlets is just as bad. When you listen to their "experts" do you do any research on that individual to see if they really are an expert? When the media reports on what the government is reporting who is reporting on what the Chinese government is reporting, you can kind of see my predicament when I literally don't trust what all three parties say.
Well said and my views have nothing to do with youTubers or info wars.
Again 330 mil citizens...1250 cases or so...30 something deaths....all elderly people with other conditions.
St. Louis county just issued a state of emergency and we have just one confirmed case. Will there be more...of course.
Who remembers the media panic of of H1Z1 in 2009? Nobody because there wasn’t one. I wonder why?
The death rate from that strain was far lower than the coronavirus from everything I've read. There's also the fact that relatively speaking, the virus just got here, so of course the raw numbers are low. They're going to keep rising. If it looks like we've gone overboard with preventive measures in hindsight, that means they worked. I say all this not from a political perspective, but a statistical one.

My biggest concern is how inefficient this country seems to be at wiping its ass. And no, that wasn't a metaphor.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

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1. Yes, racism. Check out the news, it's out there, folks of asian ethnicity have been physically assaulted, directly linked in the action to prejudice and fear of COVID-19.

2,3,4: I guess I look at like this; who do you trust then to base your beliefs on? Yourself? Government? Media? Science? Logic? Theology? We all have beliefs based one what we know from sources of media we interact with AND with our own personal bias.

Personally, I try to keep an open mind, but mostly logic, science, and media. I know CNN is a mostly liberal talking head show, just as Fox is the right-wing POV. But there are other more independent sources out there to dig into. And yes, I do research and check out things as much as I can. I'm weird like that and I frequently fall into the wormhole to learn more about shit that has little bearing on my personal life. Useless knowledge.

Noiw, would it surprise me if this was some kind of bio--weapon? Yes, very much so. Because it is tied genetically to the other coronaviruses we have seen recently in SARS and MERS. And why would the Chinese release it amongst themselves? There is like ZERO logic here in this theory, at least for me.

Also, it isn't only the old. Reports out of Italy are it hist the young very hard too. And don't forget some young folks have underlying conditions too. I know it hasn't hit us personally yet, but think about this. In Italy RIGHT NOW there are Drs and medical professional making life and death decisions on who lives, and who doesn't. Iti is that challenging due to lack of equipment and personnel. AND, they are so short staffed for body removal, that folks are dying and staying in their homes for over a day. This isn't some '3rd world country'. This is Italy!

Oh, and this thing with the Swine Flu aka H1N1; it is not a coronavirus, and it is now actually a normal part of our flu cycle And Tim, please think about what you said ( I am paraphrasing): "We didn't do all these drastic things then for swing flu, and look at how many died."

Exactly! Maybe we are overreacting. But H1N1 was a perfect example of what can happen when you DON'T overreact and just let a new virus it run its course. And there were some school shutdowns and events cancelled for that. But if IIRC, H1N1 wasn't as deadly nor did it have as high of a R0 or infections ratio. I remember my son got sick with the regular flu turning that time and had to take him to the ER because we didn't know until Dr saw him. Wasn't fun sitting in there with well over a dozen other sick kids. and their parents.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... -outbreaks



https://qz.com/india/1795332/covid-19-i ... esurfaces/
"Do Only Good Everyday"

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NHLTIM wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:20 pm
MattyIce wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:49 am
bradleygt89 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am Thanks UMSL for explaining this so well, and for whomever said that they wished the media would say this...they are. Maybe you should expand your choices of coverage of the news?

As to this whole BS about the origin of this virus, it is like anything else; you can have your opinion, you can distrust government/s and experts, and it is your right to believe someone on YouTube, FB, or any other medium. But YOU are making that choice to believe them. So here is all I ask:

IF you wish to believe the infowars dude, the guy in his basement on YouTube saying this is a 'bio weapon' or whomever or whatever; can you please QUESTION their sources and research at least as much as you would the government/s and medical experts/scientists. As they say on the Science Channel, 'Question everything' but remember, without research and a true understanding of how things work, your questioning and opinion has ZERO merritt, and unfortunately in cases like this, can spread fear, racism, stereotyping, and do more damage than the virus itself to our human society.

Mick Kern on NHL Radio just made a great point: It is often easier to believe in conspiracy theories and such instead of believing in the power of nature. We are fortunate to live in an age where most viral and bacterial infections are easily cured now, but just back when most of our parents or grandparents were born (and a few of our elder posters here even) they LIVED and saw loved ones die from things we don't even sweat anymore like the mumps, measles, staph infections, small pox, etc. We will survive this pandemic too, but this won't be the last one in our lifetime. As we continue to encroach on nature and interact more with the animals and as we commingle in habitats previously reserved for them, the odds are we will have more coronaviruses that infect humans. Nature don't give a fuck about politics or demographics. It is what it is. Just be smart and afe.

Peace and be safe everyone.
1st - Racism? What?

2nd - I have every right to question the validity of what our government tells us. I shouldn't have to give you insane amounts of examples to where they haven't been honest with the public. And why people would think this situation is any different is beyond me. And now people are trusting info that the Chinese government is putting out there.

3rd - Just because I question things and have certain theories, doesn't mean that I then automatically believe some dude making YouTube videos in his basement.

4th - I get what you are trying to say here, trust me. But, in my eyes, believing what I see on news and media outlets is just as bad. When you listen to their "experts" do you do any research on that individual to see if they really are an expert? When the media reports on what the government is reporting who is reporting on what the Chinese government is reporting, you can kind of see my predicament when I literally don't trust what all three parties say.
Well said and my views have nothing to do with youTubers or info wars.
Again 330 mil citizens...1250 cases or so...30 something deaths....all elderly people with other conditions.
St. Louis county just issued a state of emergency and we have just one confirmed case. Will there be more...of course.
Who remembers the media panic of of H1Z1 in 2009? Nobody because there wasn’t one. I wonder why?
I'm with ya Tim.

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NHLTIM wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:20 pm Well said and my views have nothing to do with youTubers or info wars.
Again 330 mil citizens...1250 cases or so...30 something deaths....all elderly people with other conditions.
St. Louis county just issued a state of emergency and we have just one confirmed case. Will there be more...of course.
Who remembers the media panic of of H1Z1 in 2009? Nobody because there wasn’t one. I wonder why?
H1N1 wasn't nearly as deadly. And also, while I'm not giving the media a gold star for their coverage of this (there has certainly been problems) I don't think I've ever seen the media "panicking" or telling people to panic (although admittedly I don't watch cable news). Its the media's job to report whats going on...are they just supposed to not tell us how bad shit's gotten in Italy and Iran? With that said--have peopled panicked in response to media coverage? Absolutely, but I don't think we can blame the media for that--thats members of the public being dumb and panicking despite every expert on this telling people to remain calm.