Re: Dirty bastard...

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What was the announcer talking about that Connelly stopped and wasn’t trying to run the player? He got that completely wrong.

If he had the puck and was turning up the ice you could get me with the “protect yourself” stuff but the puck was literally on the dash no where near the player. Terrible play.

Anyway, what he should get is public execution. What he will get 2-3 games.
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Kero with the cardinal sin there. Connolly plays the game hard. He will get a few games for sure but I don’t have a problem with that hit.
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Re: Dirty bastard...

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NHLTIM wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:32 pm Kero with the cardinal sin there. Connolly plays the game hard. He will get a few games for sure but I don’t have a problem with that hit.
Yes, lets just let guys completely run players who don't have the puck, totally fine and legal. How dare Kero not expect someone to be coming full speed at him to lay him out. This isn't 1980, no matter how hard you want it to be.
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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:15 am
Emphasis on the bolded from the article.

Kero was in a vulnerable position, and did not have possession of the puck, emphasizing that this was an instance of interference.
Connolly had opportunities to change his course or body position, but ultimately skated “through” Kero.
He hadn't even touched or deflected the puck.... totally vulnerable...got blown up for no reason other than a deliberate intent to injure. A player can play a hard game without doing that kind of shit.... might as well put the puck back in the icebox and play last man standing.

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:37 am
NHLTIM wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:32 pm Kero with the cardinal sin there. Connolly plays the game hard. He will get a few games for sure but I don’t have a problem with that hit.
Yes, lets just let guys completely run players who don't have the puck, totally fine and legal. How dare Kero not expect someone to be coming full speed at him to lay him out. This isn't 1980, no matter how hard you want it to be.
Puck was close enough for me. Still needs to keep his head up. Connolly isn’t a dirty player….sometimes things happen in hockey games. Interference?? Sure…suspendible hit ?? Yes. Do I have a problem with the hit ? Nope, not at all. I like guys that play the game hard.
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Re: Dirty bastard...

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NHLTIM wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:51 am
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:37 am
NHLTIM wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:32 pm Kero with the cardinal sin there. Connolly plays the game hard. He will get a few games for sure but I don’t have a problem with that hit.
Yes, lets just let guys completely run players who don't have the puck, totally fine and legal. How dare Kero not expect someone to be coming full speed at him to lay him out. This isn't 1980, no matter how hard you want it to be.
Puck was close enough for me. Still needs to keep his head up. Connolly isn’t a dirty player….sometimes things happen in hockey games. Interference?? Sure…suspendible hit ?? Yes. Do I have a problem with the hit ? Nope, not at all. I like guys that play the game hard.
So you agree it was interference and he should be suspended for it but don't have an issue with the hit? Seems contradictory.

I like guys that play hard too, I don't like guys that delivery dangerous unnecessary illegal hits. He had made it up in his mind that he was going to drill Kero before Kero's teammate released the puck and Connolly needs to keep his own head up to be aware that Kero was neither making an attempt to play the puck and that the puck was no where even playable for him.

Also, Kero's head was up, but he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head where Connolly was coming from because I assume he's not an alien and no teammate needed to shout heads up because who would be expecting a hit on a guy just turning to chase the puck down the ice?
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Re: Dirty bastard...

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:09 am
NHLTIM wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:51 am
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:37 am

Yes, lets just let guys completely run players who don't have the puck, totally fine and legal. How dare Kero not expect someone to be coming full speed at him to lay him out. This isn't 1980, no matter how hard you want it to be.
Puck was close enough for me. Still needs to keep his head up. Connolly isn’t a dirty player….sometimes things happen in hockey games. Interference?? Sure…suspendible hit ?? Yes. Do I have a problem with the hit ? Nope, not at all. I like guys that play the game hard.
So you agree it was interference and he should be suspended for it but don't have an issue with the hit? Seems contradictory.
Correct. There have been quite a few hits that happened where players got suspended where I didn’t have a problem with the hit but I understand based on the current rule set why they were suspended.
If this was Barby or SunnyD making the hit, most Blues fans would have jumped out of their seat with excitement. They may say “well it was a stupid hit” but they would be excited about the hit especially if it was on a Hawks, or Avalanche player.
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Turk Sanderson wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:25 pm
Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:19 pm I just have to say that this thread wasn't at all what I thought it was when I saw the title and the screen cap on the youtube clip was a close-up of Patrick Kane.
Kane's a dirty bastard too.... especially when he ain't playing hockey.
Kane is a first ballot HOF'er and likely the best American player of all time when he hangs them up.
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NHLTIM wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:12 pm
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:09 am
NHLTIM wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:51 am

Puck was close enough for me. Still needs to keep his head up. Connolly isn’t a dirty player….sometimes things happen in hockey games. Interference?? Sure…suspendible hit ?? Yes. Do I have a problem with the hit ? Nope, not at all. I like guys that play the game hard.
So you agree it was interference and he should be suspended for it but don't have an issue with the hit? Seems contradictory.
Correct. There have been quite a few hits that happened where players got suspended where I didn’t have a problem with the hit but I understand based on the current rule set why they were suspended.
If this was Barby or SunnyD making the hit, most Blues fans would have jumped out of their seat with excitement. They may say “well it was a stupid hit” but they would be excited about the hit especially if it was on a Hawks, or Avalanche player.
I didn't see too many people jacked up about watching an unconscious guy get stretchered off and am not sure if most Blues fans would be or not, just speaking for myself here.

But from history, when Blais knocked Toews of the Avs out cold last January, there wasn't many people on this board celebrating the hit so I'm not fully sure what you're basing that on tbh. Intent, no intent, dirty player, non dirty player, it doesn't matter. Yes players need to protect themselves but players also need to protect each other from unnecessary cheap shots. This hit is the exact hit this game doesn't need.
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NHLTIM wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:13 pm
Turk Sanderson wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:25 pm
Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:19 pm I just have to say that this thread wasn't at all what I thought it was when I saw the title and the screen cap on the youtube clip was a close-up of Patrick Kane.
Kane's a dirty bastard too.... especially when he ain't playing hockey.
Kane is a first ballot HOF'er and likely the best American player of all time when he hangs them up.
It pains me that three of the top 5,6 best Americans ever were all Blackhawks. Kane, Chelios, JR. Tony Amonte is somewhere on that list too. Probably in the 10-12 range, maybe a little lower.
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NHLTIM wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:13 pm
Turk Sanderson wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:25 pm
Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:19 pm I just have to say that this thread wasn't at all what I thought it was when I saw the title and the screen cap on the youtube clip was a close-up of Patrick Kane.
Kane's a dirty bastard too.... especially when he ain't playing hockey.
Kane is a first ballot HOF'er and likely the best American player of all time when he hangs them up.
Neither of those two statements disqualify the other.

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So this is going to be a bit of a semantic argument, but I think I'm with Tim in that I really don't think this hit was "dirty" per se. It was penalized correctly and the suspension was absolutely appropriate. However I don't think this was Connolly going out there head-hunting. He sees the defenseman retrieving the puck and assumes he's going to pass it to Kero rather than clearing it down the ice. In fact Kero was probably expecting that too given that he had his eyes on the puck. If that had been the case, Connolly was making the right play...but it wasn't. The thing that I don't think comes through in this clip is just how quick that decision was in this particular case. They only show one replay, and it's in slow-mo. He accidentally got his head, so again, the punishment fits, but plays like this are just bound to happen given the size of the players and the speed of the modern game. 4 games for a first time offender is a really big suspension. It's enough to change behavior, even when the problematic element of the play was accidental, and that is exactly what supplemental discipline is for.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

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Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:49 pm So this is going to be a bit of a semantic argument, but I think I'm with Tim in that I really don't think this hit was "dirty" per se. It was penalized correctly and the suspension was absolutely appropriate. However I don't think this was Connolly going out there head-hunting. He sees the defenseman retrieving the puck and assumes he's going to pass it to Kero rather than clearing it down the ice. In fact Kero was probably expecting that too given that he had his eyes on the puck. If that had been the case, Connolly was making the right play...but it wasn't. The thing that I don't think comes through in this clip is just how quick that decision was in this particular case. They only show one replay, and it's in slow-mo. He accidentally got his head, so again, the punishment fits, but plays like this are just bound to happen given the size of the players and the speed of the modern game. 4 games for a first time offender is a really big suspension. It's enough to change behavior, even when the problematic element of the play was accidental, and that is exactly what supplemental discipline is for.
That's pretty much what I thought too. The player needed to keep his head up and should have been expecting contact. But it was a bad hit. Those things happen.

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Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:49 pm So this is going to be a bit of a semantic argument, but I think I'm with Tim in that I really don't think this hit was "dirty" per se. It was penalized correctly and the suspension was absolutely appropriate. However I don't think this was Connolly going out there head-hunting. He sees the defenseman retrieving the puck and assumes he's going to pass it to Kero rather than clearing it down the ice. In fact Kero was probably expecting that too given that he had his eyes on the puck. If that had been the case, Connolly was making the right play...but it wasn't. The thing that I don't think comes through in this clip is just how quick that decision was in this particular case. They only show one replay, and it's in slow-mo. He accidentally got his head, so again, the punishment fits, but plays like this are just bound to happen given the size of the players and the speed of the modern game. 4 games for a first time offender is a really big suspension. It's enough to change behavior, even when the problematic element of the play was accidental, and that is exactly what supplemental discipline is for.
So again, it's on Kero to be aware of his surroundings but not Connolly? As I said, he made up his mind to drill Kero before the puck was even released and didn't pull up when the puck never even went to the player. Hitting a player who hasn't played the puck and isn't attempting to play a puck is a dirty hit. There's not much semantics in it.
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For the record, I like big hits, when you're separating the puck carrier from the puck, or finishing your check, its all good... but if you're gonna light someone up, make damn sure that they've touched the puck first, otherwise it becomes charging with intent to injure (which is what this was), as opposed to interference (which is what this wasn't...in spite of what OPS calls it.)

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Turk Sanderson wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:21 pm For the record, I like big hits, when you're separating the puck carrier from the puck, or finishing your check, its all good... but if you're gonna light someone up, make damn sure that they've touched the puck first, otherwise it becomes charging with intent to injure (which is what this was), as opposed to interference (which is what this wasn't...in spite of what OPS calls it.)
yes, this.

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Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:15 pm
Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:49 pm So this is going to be a bit of a semantic argument, but I think I'm with Tim in that I really don't think this hit was "dirty" per se. It was penalized correctly and the suspension was absolutely appropriate. However I don't think this was Connolly going out there head-hunting. He sees the defenseman retrieving the puck and assumes he's going to pass it to Kero rather than clearing it down the ice. In fact Kero was probably expecting that too given that he had his eyes on the puck. If that had been the case, Connolly was making the right play...but it wasn't. The thing that I don't think comes through in this clip is just how quick that decision was in this particular case. They only show one replay, and it's in slow-mo. He accidentally got his head, so again, the punishment fits, but plays like this are just bound to happen given the size of the players and the speed of the modern game. 4 games for a first time offender is a really big suspension. It's enough to change behavior, even when the problematic element of the play was accidental, and that is exactly what supplemental discipline is for.
So again, it's on Kero to be aware of his surroundings but not Connolly? As I said, he made up his mind to drill Kero before the puck was even released and didn't pull up when the puck never even went to the player. Hitting a player who hasn't played the puck and isn't attempting to play a puck is a dirty hit. There's not much semantics in it.
Not what I'm saying. He's gotta look at the puck there because he had to see if he was going to be receiving the pass. If Connolly wasn't at fault why would I be ok with a suspension and match penalty? I just said it wasn't dirty, aka wasn't premeditated or an attempt to injure. I think you're probably right that he was planning on hitting him before the puck was released, but the time between when the puck was release and the hit occurred was about a quarter of a second. And again, the reason he decided to hit him was because he assumed the puck would be on Kero's stick. Kero probably assumed so too. We see that play 20 times a game. To be clear...he shouldn't have hit him! However, he had very very little time to make that call, and that's just a byproduct of the speed of today's game. He had about a tenth of a second to decide whether or not to hit him, and he chose wrong. He'll think twice about it the next time he's in that situation, and that's the exact point of supplementary discipline.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

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Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:07 pm
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:15 pm
Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:49 pm So this is going to be a bit of a semantic argument, but I think I'm with Tim in that I really don't think this hit was "dirty" per se. It was penalized correctly and the suspension was absolutely appropriate. However I don't think this was Connolly going out there head-hunting. He sees the defenseman retrieving the puck and assumes he's going to pass it to Kero rather than clearing it down the ice. In fact Kero was probably expecting that too given that he had his eyes on the puck. If that had been the case, Connolly was making the right play...but it wasn't. The thing that I don't think comes through in this clip is just how quick that decision was in this particular case. They only show one replay, and it's in slow-mo. He accidentally got his head, so again, the punishment fits, but plays like this are just bound to happen given the size of the players and the speed of the modern game. 4 games for a first time offender is a really big suspension. It's enough to change behavior, even when the problematic element of the play was accidental, and that is exactly what supplemental discipline is for.
So again, it's on Kero to be aware of his surroundings but not Connolly? As I said, he made up his mind to drill Kero before the puck was even released and didn't pull up when the puck never even went to the player. Hitting a player who hasn't played the puck and isn't attempting to play a puck is a dirty hit. There's not much semantics in it.
Not what I'm saying. He's gotta look at the puck there because he had to see if he was going to be receiving the pass. If Connolly wasn't at fault why would I be ok with a suspension and match penalty? I just said it wasn't dirty, aka wasn't premeditated or an attempt to injure. I think you're probably right that he was planning on hitting him before the puck was released, but the time between when the puck was release and the hit occurred was about a quarter of a second. And again, the reason he decided to hit him was because he assumed the puck would be on Kero's stick. Kero probably assumed so too. We see that play 20 times a game. To be clear...he shouldn't have hit him! However, he had very very little time to make that call, and that's just a byproduct of the speed of today's game. He had about a tenth of a second to decide whether or not to hit him, and he chose wrong. He'll think twice about it the next time he's in that situation, and that's the exact point of supplementary discipline.
It was absolutely a premeditated attempt to injure, and if Kero had touched the puck it would have been well within the NHL's boundaries of legal hits. Players don't skate full tilt into other players and hope that they get back up... they try to knock them out of the game...like it or not, that's just the way it is... the fine line between legal and dirty, is a split-second touch of the puck. These guys are the best players in the world... they make millions because they can do things in a split second... Connolly didn't let up on a guy who hadn't touched the puck (despite what the idiot announcer said), he skated through him knowing he hadn't touched the puck, and he's a dirty bastard for doing that.