Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

101
How many GM’s in the league would tell their Captain, who is currently a top 10 defenseman that just won you a Cup, to go take a hike?

I’ll tell you how many other GM’s would do this.............NONE..........ZERO............NADA...........so much for Army being too loyal. Apparently he’s only loyal if it makes sense to him for the good of the organization. You have to give him a ton of credit here.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

102
BillP. wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:04 pm How many GM’s in the league would tell their Captain, who is currently a top 10 defenseman that just won you a Cup, to go take a hike?

I’ll tell you how many other GM’s would do this.............NONE..........ZERO............NADA...........so much for Army being too loyal. Apparently he’s only loyal if it makes sense to him for the good of the organization. You have to give him a ton of credit here.
Well.....plus throw in the fact that the original tweet from Jeremy Rutherford sounds like fucking bullshit. JR just reporting whatever Petro’s agent is telling him. Come on, not a chance this is true:

“The Blues’ current offer is $7.7 million AAV, but Pietrangelo has been asked to accept the AAV without knowing the structure of the deal”


For the record, Strickland threw cold water on that:

“The numbers being tossed around for Pietrangelo are significantly higher than what’s being reported. Told an offer was made as recent as last night. To assume the #stlblues are disrespecting Petro is probably unfair. STL remain hopeful he stays a Blue.”

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

103
Matangama wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:35 pm
BillP. wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:04 pm How many GM’s in the league would tell their Captain, who is currently a top 10 defenseman that just won you a Cup, to go take a hike?

I’ll tell you how many other GM’s would do this.............NONE..........ZERO............NADA...........so much for Army being too loyal. Apparently he’s only loyal if it makes sense to him for the good of the organization. You have to give him a ton of credit here.
Well.....plus throw in the fact that the original tweet from Jeremy Rutherford sounds like fucking bullshit. JR just reporting whatever Petro’s agent is telling him. Come on, not a chance this is true:

“The Blues’ current offer is $7.7 million AAV, but Pietrangelo has been asked to accept the AAV without knowing the structure of the deal”


For the record, Strickland threw cold water on that:

“The numbers being tossed around for Pietrangelo are significantly higher than what’s being reported. Told an offer was made as recent as last night. To assume the #stlblues are disrespecting Petro is probably unfair. STL remain hopeful he stays a Blue.”
I don't know, if there's a fair criticism about JR its that he holds on to or doesn't get scoops like the $7.7 AAV with much frequency. If he's reporting it thats more believable than company man Strickland defending the Blues without adding any specifics.

Sounds like Army is asking him to lock in at 7.7 before figuring out term. I get it, but don't blame Petro for telling him thats not going to work.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

104
Matangama wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:35 pm
BillP. wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:04 pm How many GM’s in the league would tell their Captain, who is currently a top 10 defenseman that just won you a Cup, to go take a hike?

I’ll tell you how many other GM’s would do this.............NONE..........ZERO............NADA...........so much for Army being too loyal. Apparently he’s only loyal if it makes sense to him for the good of the organization. You have to give him a ton of credit here.
Well.....plus throw in the fact that the original tweet from Jeremy Rutherford sounds like fucking bullshit. JR just reporting whatever Petro’s agent is telling him. Come on, not a chance this is true:

“The Blues’ current offer is $7.7 million AAV, but Pietrangelo has been asked to accept the AAV without knowing the structure of the deal”


For the record, Strickland threw cold water on that:

“The numbers being tossed around for Pietrangelo are significantly higher than what’s being reported. Told an offer was made as recent as last night. To assume the #stlblues are disrespecting Petro is probably unfair. STL remain hopeful he stays a Blue.”
I don't believe it either. Armstrong isn't known for dicking around people like that.

Petro has always made it clear he was going to test the market and Armstrong really couldn't just back up the Brinks truck and throw unlimited dollars at Petro.

If it was me I would have given Petro term but not at the money he would have been asking for. Armstrong was probably only willing to go five years.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

105
BluesSK wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:44 pm
Matangama wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:35 pm
BillP. wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:04 pm How many GM’s in the league would tell their Captain, who is currently a top 10 defenseman that just won you a Cup, to go take a hike?

I’ll tell you how many other GM’s would do this.............NONE..........ZERO............NADA...........so much for Army being too loyal. Apparently he’s only loyal if it makes sense to him for the good of the organization. You have to give him a ton of credit here.
Well.....plus throw in the fact that the original tweet from Jeremy Rutherford sounds like fucking bullshit. JR just reporting whatever Petro’s agent is telling him. Come on, not a chance this is true:

“The Blues’ current offer is $7.7 million AAV, but Pietrangelo has been asked to accept the AAV without knowing the structure of the deal”


For the record, Strickland threw cold water on that:

“The numbers being tossed around for Pietrangelo are significantly higher than what’s being reported. Told an offer was made as recent as last night. To assume the #stlblues are disrespecting Petro is probably unfair. STL remain hopeful he stays a Blue.”
I don't believe it either. Armstrong isn't known for dicking around people like that.

Petro has always made it clear he was going to test the market and Armstrong really couldn't just back up the Brinks truck and throw unlimited dollars at Petro.

If it was me I would have given Petro term but not at the money he would have been asking for. Armstrong was probably only willing to go five years.
I think you're probably correct. To me, if Petro insists on anything longer than five years, then let him walk.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

106
Latest from Strickland:



Also this:

“ I’ve said from the beginning, one of the biggest roadblocks between Pietrangelo and the #stlblues would be how the contract is structured. Under Stillman/Armstrong , they have never negotiated signing bonus money in a contract. Org philosophy vs representation philosophy differs”

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

107
JR posted an article with lots of detail last night. Sounds like the offer has gone up to 8 and there are versions that hit 7-8 years, but issues remain regarding a no movement clause and bonus structure in the last year or two of the contract. Bigger bonuses in the late years make contracts hard to buy out.

Both sides doing what they should. Petro can definitely get this structure at the same or better price elsewhere. He's said its not just about AAV, and that could be true. Somebody is going to have to blink, or Petro is headed out of town.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

108
Dave's a mess wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:41 am JR posted an article with lots of detail last night. Sounds like the offer has gone up to 8 and there are versions that hit 7-8 years, but issues remain regarding a no movement clause and bonus structure in the last year or two of the contract. Bigger bonuses in the late years make contracts hard to buy out.

Both sides doing what they should. Petro can definitely get this structure at the same or better price elsewhere. He's said its not just about AAV, and that could be true. Somebody is going to have to blink, or Petro is headed out of town.
Thanks.....haven’t seen that yet. At the end of the day, Petro will need to make his decision. Sounds like the Blues are close enough for a deal to eventually get done. If it doesn’t, then I’m fine with it and Army moves to Plan B.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

109
Dave's a mess wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:41 am JR posted an article with lots of detail last night. Sounds like the offer has gone up to 8 and there are versions that hit 7-8 years, but issues remain regarding a no movement clause and bonus structure in the last year or two of the contract. Bigger bonuses in the late years make contracts hard to buy out.

Both sides doing what they should. Petro can definitely get this structure at the same or better price elsewhere. He's said its not just about AAV, and that could be true. Somebody is going to have to blink, or Petro is headed out of town.
I don’t believe it. We go from Deregers post on the 18th and talks of Petro being disappointed in offers to this? That’s too radical in too short a time. Besides, I don’t think there’s any way Army offer more than 6 years term. Army talks of common ground and now he’s offering 7 or 8 years? That’s not common ground, that’s giving in, and that’s not Army. I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong but I call BS on JRs reporting.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

110
Dave's a mess wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:41 am JR posted an article with lots of detail last night. Sounds like the offer has gone up to 8 and there are versions that hit 7-8 years, but issues remain regarding a no movement clause and bonus structure in the last year or two of the contract. Bigger bonuses in the late years make contracts hard to buy out.

Both sides doing what they should. Petro can definitely get this structure at the same or better price elsewhere. He's said its not just about AAV, and that could be true. Somebody is going to have to blink, or Petro is headed out of town.
I don’t believe it. We go from Deregers post on the 18th and talks of Petro being disappointed in offers to this? That’s too radical in too short a time. Besides, I don’t think there’s any way Army offer more than 6 years term. Army talks of common ground and now he’s offering 7 or 8 years? That’s not common ground, that’s giving in, and that’s not Army. I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong but I call BS on JRs reporting.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

113
Are the Blues being cheapskates or is this the best decision for the team? Pietrangelo is talented and played a huge roll in the Blues Cup run, and he will not be easily replaced. To me it seems really short sighted to let one of your best players walk over money a year removed from a Cup victory.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

114
BillP. wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:59 am
Dave's a mess wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:41 am JR posted an article with lots of detail last night. Sounds like the offer has gone up to 8 and there are versions that hit 7-8 years, but issues remain regarding a no movement clause and bonus structure in the last year or two of the contract. Bigger bonuses in the late years make contracts hard to buy out.

Both sides doing what they should. Petro can definitely get this structure at the same or better price elsewhere. He's said its not just about AAV, and that could be true. Somebody is going to have to blink, or Petro is headed out of town.
I don’t believe it. We go from Deregers post on the 18th and talks of Petro being disappointed in offers to this? That’s too radical in too short a time. Besides, I don’t think there’s any way Army offer more than 6 years term. Army talks of common ground and now he’s offering 7 or 8 years? That’s not common ground, that’s giving in, and that’s not Army. I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong but I call BS on JRs reporting.
What about JR's reporting indicates he's not disappointed? It very much confirms it.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

116
hey gang, long time lurker (even back to the asylum)

anyways, had a question and I figure someone here will def know the answer. I get that there appears to be more to Petro's contract talks than just $$, but this just pertains to that.
My understanding is, LTIR does not go into effect until the beginning of the season. so IF (when?) Tarasenko goes on LTIR, any savings will only kick in then.

so the questions are:
- if he's out half the year, do we save half his salary against the cap?
- teams can go over the salary cap by 10% (again, I THINK I read this.. might be wrong) during the offseason. so the blues could go over by ~8 mil till the season starts, correct?
- if this is correct, doesn't that mean, right now, the blues would have (again what I've read) ~5 mil free now, plus the 8mil overage to use to sign salaries?

and I keep hearing Steen could be on the LTIR to begin the season as well, but I've never heard what exactly his injury is. at one point it was covid, then a bad back... etc... I THINK this is just some can conjecture, but wondering if anyone has heard definitively.

again, thx for taking the time for these!

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

117
Food for thought......watching both Luke Schenn and Zach Bogosian in the playoffs, and they have both played surprisingly well. When I watch them, they both look like character veterans that add a nice dimension to Tampa’s lineup. In both cases, they look like guys that have slowed down, but could have another couple of years left in their careers.

Then consider that they were drafted in the same year as Petro, one before him and one after. Petro is obviously the best of the three, and has stayed very healthy thus far in his career. He also plays a less physical style than those two, so less wear and tear. Still.....looking at those two, that (to me) gives a little perspective on the idea of giving Petro an 8-year deal. Yikes.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

118
Matangama wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:55 am Food for thought......watching both Luke Schenn and Zach Bogosian in the playoffs, and they have both played surprisingly well. When I watch them, they both look like character veterans that add a nice dimension to Tampa’s lineup. In both cases, they look like guys that have slowed down, but could have another couple of years left in their careers.

Then consider that they were drafted in the same year as Petro, one before him and one after. Petro is obviously the best of the three, and has stayed very healthy thus far in his career. He also plays a less physical style than those two, so less wear and tear. Still.....looking at those two, that (to me) gives a little perspective on the idea of giving Petro an 8-year deal. Yikes.
Eight year deal is kind of scary...but if you got five good ones.....and three where he was third pairing...would that be worth it to you?

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

119
CaptSMRT wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:45 am
Eight year deal is kind of scary...but if you got five good ones.....and three where he was third pairing...would that be worth it to you?
Totally depends on the AAV. If he signs for right around $8 mil, then I think Army says yes. Army showed his philosophy when signing Schenn. He flat out said that the last couple of years oF that deal could be less than ideal, but he was willing to take that chance. I assume that had a lot to do with the fact that Schenn signed for less than market value (or perceived market value at the time). After Kevin Hayes signed that fat deal with Philadelphia, Schenn was probably looking at $7+ in free agency......pre-Covid.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

120
Matangama wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:04 am
CaptSMRT wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:45 am
Eight year deal is kind of scary...but if you got five good ones.....and three where he was third pairing...would that be worth it to you?
Totally depends on the AAV. If he signs for right around $8 mil, then I think Army says yes. Army showed his philosophy when signing Schenn. He flat out said that the last couple of years oF that deal could be less than ideal, but he was willing to take that chance. I assume that had a lot to do with the fact that Schenn signed for less than market value (or perceived market value at the time). After Kevin Hayes signed that fat deal with Philadelphia, Schenn was probably looking at $7+ in free agency......pre-Covid.
Is Pietrangelos negotiation Stillman sending the signal...the players are going to take their bite of the pandemic and probably can't expect the same pay scale as pre-covid times?

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

121
CaptSMRT wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:46 pm
Matangama wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:04 am
CaptSMRT wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:45 am
Eight year deal is kind of scary...but if you got five good ones.....and three where he was third pairing...would that be worth it to you?
Totally depends on the AAV. If he signs for right around $8 mil, then I think Army says yes. Army showed his philosophy when signing Schenn. He flat out said that the last couple of years oF that deal could be less than ideal, but he was willing to take that chance. I assume that had a lot to do with the fact that Schenn signed for less than market value (or perceived market value at the time). After Kevin Hayes signed that fat deal with Philadelphia, Schenn was probably looking at $7+ in free agency......pre-Covid.
Is Pietrangelos negotiation Stillman sending the signal...the players are going to take their bite of the pandemic and probably can't expect the same pay scale as pre-covid times?
If it had only impacted the current season, I’d say probably not much of an impact on the players. But with next season almost definitely being impacted as well, then I say yes, the players are going to feel the pinch. Who knows what happens to the cap going forward, so it’s going to be very tough to hand out big deals. Taylor Hall and a few other free agents have acknowledged it.

In Petro’s case, how the heck do you propose that a team like the Blues not only give you a mega contract, but also pay a significant percentage of the deal in the first few years as signing bonuses, at the same time that the team’s revenues are being significantly impacted? NHL attendance accounts for over 50% of league revenue, and that revenue source has gone to zero for the time being. That’s either hardcore negotiating by Petro’s agent or Petro just doesn’t really care about staying.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

122
CaptSMRT wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:18 pm Are the Blues being cheapskates or is this the best decision for the team? Pietrangelo is talented and played a huge roll in the Blues Cup run, and he will not be easily replaced. To me it seems really short sighted to let one of your best players walk over money a year removed from a Cup victory.
I think the bigger question the DA has to figure out is how many more Cups can this particular core compete for? IF he believes they have another 3-4 years of true Cup Contenders, then he'll be more motivated to sign Petro. But considering Tarasenko's injury history, the inconsistent play of some of the other top 6, I'm not sure. Signing Petro until 2029 is a HUGE commitment. I love Petro's play lately, but I don't think we want to have him for the next decade. If he doesn't take a 6 year deal, I say bye and thank you for the memories, because in 5 years, he won't be 70% the player he is now, but will still be taking up $8-9M of the Salary Cap. I've just never been a fan of giving players over 30 long term deals unless they are super-elite players, which Petro is not. Let's put our bias down, and be honest: Is Petro really even a top 10 dman when the end of next season rolls along? Not IMHO.
"Do Only Good Everyday"

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

124
Plain and simple... in reality Petro was on the cup winner 2 seasons ago... and was paid well for his part in that process. That's water under the bridge... the next contract is about what to expect from him going forward. He may have some good years left, but he's gonna get slower, and the opposing forwards keep getting faster. No one knows about the revenues going forward, either... bubble hockey may be the thing for a while. Petro's already 30 y/o too. If someone offers him stupid money, I'd let him go bye-bye. Four years at 7.5 million would be my tops... probably wouldn't work, but you have to keep infusing younger,hungrier, faster, and cheaper players into the mix.

Re: Pietrangelo Free Agency Talk

125
CaptSMRT wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:46 pm
Matangama wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:04 am
CaptSMRT wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:45 am
Eight year deal is kind of scary...but if you got five good ones.....and three where he was third pairing...would that be worth it to you?
Totally depends on the AAV. If he signs for right around $8 mil, then I think Army says yes. Army showed his philosophy when signing Schenn. He flat out said that the last couple of years oF that deal could be less than ideal, but he was willing to take that chance. I assume that had a lot to do with the fact that Schenn signed for less than market value (or perceived market value at the time). After Kevin Hayes signed that fat deal with Philadelphia, Schenn was probably looking at $7+ in free agency......pre-Covid.
Is Pietrangelos negotiation Stillman sending the signal...the players are going to take their bite of the pandemic and probably can't expect the same pay scale as pre-covid times?
I haven't even really been considering this since we are always so concerned about keeping under the salary cap but a lot of teams must be really hurting right now.

We aren't looking at having fans in the stands when he next season starts in December/January.