So what’s your predictions for Petro next year? Does he set career high’s in goals and assists? Vegas does have a nice group of forwards there that score a lot of goals off the rush. I’ll say he does set a career high in points next year,

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:53 pm Good for Petro he got a great deal to save face. Vegas might end up regretting it though. Army’s offer still better than Vegas all things considered.

Thats not remotely true though. All things considered means you consider tax effects and contract terms.. With the lack of state income tax in Nevada and the inclusion of a full NMC, the Vegas contract is considerably better on paper.

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:17 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:53 pm Good for Petro he got a great deal to save face. Vegas might end up regretting it though. Army’s offer still better than Vegas all things considered.

Thats not remotely true though. All things considered means you consider tax effects and contract terms.. With the lack of state income tax in Nevada and the inclusion of a full NMC, the Vegas contract is considerably better on paper.

I think staying home with all the intangibles is priceless. Blues offer much better. The NMC is a moot issue. Nobody would want him and that contract if he started to decline here. The Blues were married to that contract once it was signed.

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:17 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:53 pm Good for Petro he got a great deal to save face. Vegas might end up regretting it though. Army’s offer still better than Vegas all things considered.

Thats not remotely true though. All things considered means you consider tax effects and contract terms.. With the lack of state income tax in Nevada and the inclusion of a full NMC, the Vegas contract is considerably better on paper.

I wouldn't call it "considerably better"

The Blues lost their team captain and I can honestly say I think they've had a good off-season. Stick taps to Army

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:42 pmI think staying home with all the intangibles is priceless. ...

St. Louis is "home" for Mrs. Pietrangelo, but not for her husband. He's from Ontario, Canada.

no matter how you slice it, him taking less money and term to leave says something else was going on here. while he became a better player under chief, i think everyone here knows i was never on board with him as captain. so, have fun in vegas i guess. still, fans will have a lot of questions and feel insulted that he took less to leave than we offered to stay. had he not won a Cup here, it would immediately be "fuck that guy forever" with a lot of boos next time he's here. assuming we're allowed to attend ever again.

yes i understand it's slightly more per year on average, and the income tax situation is different in NV, but even if you say it's a couple mil more total, it's close enough to not be material. at least it is in my eyes. if he wanted to stay, it wouldn't have made a difference.

so, respect - you were the first STL blues player to lift The Cup, but fuck you, don't let the door hit you (or benn sit on you) on the way out.

I think you all are really underrating the importance of a NMC to a player. Those are practically priceless, especially for these guys that are going to be old at the end of their contracts. As Army said, it gives the player more power over his employment than the owner of the team. There is literally nothing VGK can do, even if Petro is a garbage player in his 7th year, to get him off the roster (unless he retires). Its a guarantee of stability, which I think when you consider how this all turned out (and comments Petro has made in the past) was the most important thing for him. Army wasn't willing to give him that kind of stability in the latter years of the contract (and I can't fault him for that) so Petro went elsewhere.

I think I read only 64 players have ever gotten NMCs. Its a big deal. It seems like Petro took the best deal available to him and all things considered his agent did a pretty damn good job considering VGK seemed to be bidding against themselves.

Going to miss the guy but I'm excited to watch Parayko take the next step in his career here.

true, fair point. especially with three or more kids being in school.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:50 pm The Blues lost their team captain and I can honestly say I think they've had a good off-season. Stick taps to Army

Eh, I wouldn't say it was good. For the first time in a long time I'm worried about our D-corp going into the season. They should be able to produce offensively, but half of the top-6 (Dunn, Faulk, Krug) are known to be suspect in their own end from time to time. Hopefully we're playing in the offensive zone a lot, and Krug should help a lot with that.

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:42 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:17 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:53 pm Good for Petro he got a great deal to save face. Vegas might end up regretting it though. Army’s offer still better than Vegas all things considered.

Thats not remotely true though. All things considered means you consider tax effects and contract terms.. With the lack of state income tax in Nevada and the inclusion of a full NMC, the Vegas contract is considerably better on paper.

I think staying home with all the intangibles is priceless. Blues offer much better. The NMC is a moot issue. Nobody would want him and that contract if he started to decline here. The Blues were married to that contract once it was signed.

That's a great point, Bill. No one would have traded for a 36 year old d-man making that much money.

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:42 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:17 pm

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:53 pm Good for Petro he got a great deal to save face. Vegas might end up regretting it though. Army’s offer still better than Vegas all things considered.

Thats not remotely true though. All things considered means you consider tax effects and contract terms.. With the lack of state income tax in Nevada and the inclusion of a full NMC, the Vegas contract is considerably better on paper.

I think staying home with all the intangibles is priceless. Blues offer much better. The NMC is a moot issue. Nobody would want him and that contract if he started to decline here. The Blues were married to that contract once it was signed.

The value of staying where you are varies wildly by individual. It might mean a ton to you or me or a bunch of NHL players, and nothing to others. Assuming he stays in Vegas for the entire 7 years, he will pay $0 in state income tax. If he would have taken the $8x8 offer from Armstrong, he would've paid $3,447,112 over the 8 years in MO state income tax. He will make more actual dollars in 7 years in Vegas than he would have in 8 years in St. Louis.

He will also have 100% control over whether he leaves or not throughout the duration of those 7 years due to the full no move clause. Nate Schmidt played quite well since day 1 in Vegas, was well worth his contract, but just got traded for nothing to make room for Petro. Last year was the first season on that 6 year deal, so a NMC is not just about a player not wanting to be traded when he's washed up. Things happen quickly in the NHL, and many times it's out of the players control. If Schmidt had a NMC, he'd still be in Vegas. Those clauses are very important to some players, like perhaps guys with 4 kids that are about to start school in the next year or so.

So did Petro mess up by not taking the $8x8 offer? It is literally impossible for anyone besides him to say. What I do know is he will make more money on his current deal, and he will never have to move again unless he wants to. He has to move his family and break in with a new club. Was it worth it? That's for him to find out. I wish him good health, and hope he enjoys watching his former teammates lift the Cup each of the next 7 years.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:29 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:50 pm The Blues lost their team captain and I can honestly say I think they've had a good off-season. Stick taps to Army

Eh, I wouldn't say it was good. For the first time in a long time I'm worried about our D-corp going into the season. They should be able to produce offensively, but half of the top-6 (Dunn, Faulk, Krug) are known to be suspect in their own end from time to time. Hopefully we're playing in the offensive zone a lot, and Krug should help a lot with that.

Point taken, but, its not like Petro was Al Arbour or Bryce Salvador defensively.

barnburner wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:40 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:29 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:50 pm The Blues lost their team captain and I can honestly say I think they've had a good off-season. Stick taps to Army

Eh, I wouldn't say it was good. For the first time in a long time I'm worried about our D-corp going into the season. They should be able to produce offensively, but half of the top-6 (Dunn, Faulk, Krug) are known to be suspect in their own end from time to time. Hopefully we're playing in the offensive zone a lot, and Krug should help a lot with that.

Point taken, but, its not like Petro was Al Arbour or Bryce Salvador defensively.

Good one.

Still need a backup goalie and we didn't add anything to our skill group at the forward position. Bobby Ryan for a mill would of been great. Really need Kyrou and Kostin to step up. And same for Thomas, he needs to hit that 60 point mark this season.

barnburner wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:40 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:29 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:50 pm The Blues lost their team captain and I can honestly say I think they've had a good off-season. Stick taps to Army

Eh, I wouldn't say it was good. For the first time in a long time I'm worried about our D-corp going into the season. They should be able to produce offensively, but half of the top-6 (Dunn, Faulk, Krug) are known to be suspect in their own end from time to time. Hopefully we're playing in the offensive zone a lot, and Krug should help a lot with that.

Point taken, but, its not like Petro was Al Arbour or Bryce Salvador defensively.

That and Krug isn't exactly a liability either.

MattyIce wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:57 am

BillP. wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:42 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:17 pm

Thats not remotely true though. All things considered means you consider tax effects and contract terms.. With the lack of state income tax in Nevada and the inclusion of a full NMC, the Vegas contract is considerably better on paper.

I think staying home with all the intangibles is priceless. Blues offer much better. The NMC is a moot issue. Nobody would want him and that contract if he started to decline here. The Blues were married to that contract once it was signed.

That's a great point, Bill. No one would have traded for a 36 year old d-man making that much money.

Sure they would have...teams have traded for Chris Pronger while he was retired to get to the cap floor before. Teams are constantly trading bad deals. You only need to look at our own GM to see what kind of contracts can be moved when players don’t have clauses in their deals.

Also, a NMC and a NTC are not the same thing. NMC guarantees he won’t be buried in the minors a la Wade Redden. An NMC is hardly a moot point.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:09 am

barnburner wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:40 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:29 am

Eh, I wouldn't say it was good. For the first time in a long time I'm worried about our D-corp going into the season. They should be able to produce offensively, but half of the top-6 (Dunn, Faulk, Krug) are known to be suspect in their own end from time to time. Hopefully we're playing in the offensive zone a lot, and Krug should help a lot with that.

Point taken, but, its not like Petro was Al Arbour or Bryce Salvador defensively.

That and Krug isn't exactly a liability either.

Who is going to eat Petro’s minutes on the right side? Parayko gets some more minutes now, fine. As of right now the rest of his 20+ per night are gonna go to Faulk and Bortuzzo. After last year watching Faulk I can’t believe some of you think that’s going to work out well for us. I absolutely don’t think we should have signed Petro to the contract he got, but we lost a lot of big minutes on the right side and as of right now they’re going to Justin Faulk. I am not excited about that at all

Fuck him... Just like David Backes, he's dead to me now. He could have had his number hanging in the rafters, but fuck that shit now. When he puts that VGK sweater, he's the enemy. I hope that he's treated accordingly by his ex-teammates.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:23 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:09 am

barnburner wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:40 am

Point taken, but, its not like Petro was Al Arbour or Bryce Salvador defensively.

That and Krug isn't exactly a liability either.

Who is going to eat Petro’s minutes on the right side? Parayko gets some more minutes now, fine. As of right now the rest of his 20+ per night are gonna go to Faulk and Bortuzzo. After last year watching Faulk I can’t believe some of you think that’s going to work out well for us. I absolutely don’t think we should have signed Petro to the contract he got, but we lost a lot of big minutes on the right side and as of right now they’re going to Justin Faulk. I am not excited about that at all

No one is going to replace his minutes. He's Alex F'n Pietrangelo. It's a team effort

Petro plays 24 minutes a night, Krug plays 21 minutes a night. Parayko 23. You bump Parayko up a minute and you basically are just filling in the two minute difference that was Parayko and Krug last year. Faulk was already playing over 20 minutes last year so it wouldn't be like he's going from 15 to 20 or whatever if he gets the extra TOI.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:32 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:23 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:09 am

That and Krug isn't exactly a liability either.

Who is going to eat Petro’s minutes on the right side? Parayko gets some more minutes now, fine. As of right now the rest of his 20+ per night are gonna go to Faulk and Bortuzzo. After last year watching Faulk I can’t believe some of you think that’s going to work out well for us. I absolutely don’t think we should have signed Petro to the contract he got, but we lost a lot of big minutes on the right side and as of right now they’re going to Justin Faulk. I am not excited about that at all

No one is going to replace his minutes. He's Alex F'n Pietrangelo. It's a team effort

Petro plays 24 minutes a night, Krug plays 21 minutes a night. Parayko 23. You bump Parayko up a minute and you basically are just filling in the two minute difference that was Parayko and Krug last year. Faulk was already playing over 20 minutes last year so it wouldn't be like he's going from 15 to 20 or whatever if he gets the extra TOI.

I’m not talking about the TOI. I’m talking the specific minutes Petro played, against top guys. Parayko and Petro split that responsibility on the right side the last two years. Do Parayko and Faulk split that now? Does Parayko take the bulk? I don’t know the answer to that but in order for our D to be close to as good as we’ve been previously we need both Parayko and Faulk to step up, Faulk big time from last year. I just don’t know how realistic that is.

I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer here but our D has clearly downgraded. Will we be healthier in the long term without that contract? Probably. Next year? I doubt it. Would we have been healthier long term with Petro and without Faulk? That’s kind of what it comes down to here for me and if you look at our D transactions going back to last season things don’t exactly look rosy.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:41 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:32 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:23 am

Who is going to eat Petro’s minutes on the right side? Parayko gets some more minutes now, fine. As of right now the rest of his 20+ per night are gonna go to Faulk and Bortuzzo. After last year watching Faulk I can’t believe some of you think that’s going to work out well for us. I absolutely don’t think we should have signed Petro to the contract he got, but we lost a lot of big minutes on the right side and as of right now they’re going to Justin Faulk. I am not excited about that at all

No one is going to replace his minutes. He's Alex F'n Pietrangelo. It's a team effort

Petro plays 24 minutes a night, Krug plays 21 minutes a night. Parayko 23. You bump Parayko up a minute and you basically are just filling in the two minute difference that was Parayko and Krug last year. Faulk was already playing over 20 minutes last year so it wouldn't be like he's going from 15 to 20 or whatever if he gets the extra TOI.

I’m not talking about the TOI. I’m talking the specific minutes Petro played, against top guys. Parayko and Petro split that responsibility on the right side the last two years. Do Parayko and Faulk split that now? Does Parayko take the bulk? I don’t know the answer to that but in order for our D to be close to as good as we’ve been previously we need both Parayko and Faulk to step up, Faulk big time from last year. I just don’t know how realistic that is.

I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer here but our D has clearly downgraded. Will we be healthier in the long term without that contract? Probably. Next year? I doubt it. Would we have been healthier long term with Petro and without Faulk? That’s kind of what it comes down to here for me and if you look at our D transactions going back to last season things don’t exactly look rosy.

Yeah, we'll just have to see.

During Amry's zoom call he talked about Parayko and Scandella vs the Nathan McKinnon's of the world with Krug paired with Faulk.

Personally, I'm hoping Vince Dunn can watch Krug play and learn some things. Krug is basically what I had hoped Dunn would eventually become.

They are nuts

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:47 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:41 am

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:32 am

No one is going to replace his minutes. He's Alex F'n Pietrangelo. It's a team effort

Petro plays 24 minutes a night, Krug plays 21 minutes a night. Parayko 23. You bump Parayko up a minute and you basically are just filling in the two minute difference that was Parayko and Krug last year. Faulk was already playing over 20 minutes last year so it wouldn't be like he's going from 15 to 20 or whatever if he gets the extra TOI.

I’m not talking about the TOI. I’m talking the specific minutes Petro played, against top guys. Parayko and Petro split that responsibility on the right side the last two years. Do Parayko and Faulk split that now? Does Parayko take the bulk? I don’t know the answer to that but in order for our D to be close to as good as we’ve been previously we need both Parayko and Faulk to step up, Faulk big time from last year. I just don’t know how realistic that is.

I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer here but our D has clearly downgraded. Will we be healthier in the long term without that contract? Probably. Next year? I doubt it. Would we have been healthier long term with Petro and without Faulk? That’s kind of what it comes down to here for me and if you look at our D transactions going back to last season things don’t exactly look rosy.

Yeah, we'll just have to see.

During Amry's zoom call he talked about Parayko and Scandella vs the Nathan McKinnon's of the world with Krug paired with Faulk.

Personally, I'm hoping Vince Dunn can watch Krug play and learn some things. Krug is basically what I had hoped Dunn would eventually become.

Faulk is going to have to be a lot better. Parayko is going to have to be better. I actually wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit more roster churn before the puck drops next season. Dunn is unsigned right now and they're still a bit over the cap. They still have Mikkola and Perunovich champing at the bit, both of whom play on the left side. Scandella and Krug aren't going anywhere, so Gunnar seems like the odd man out...unless somebody make a nice little offer for Dunn. I love Dunn, but he's a 3rd pairing guy at 5v5, and with Krug in the fold he'll never be more than PP2 with the man advantage. If Perunovich can handle the the bottom pairing, Dunn is redundant isn't he? Not saying I'd do it, but the writing is on the wall.

And here's the last unknown about the deal in Vegas:

Surprised he got no bonus in year 7. That'll make it easier for Vegas to buy him out in the year he's most likely to be a buyout candidate. But it's basically impossible to buy him out before then, so probably worthwhile. If he ages well it's a moot point anyway.

You know, without Doug's foresight, we could really be in a bad spot. He got Faulk last year and didn't wait around to sign Krug. It's realistic that we could have been sitting here today without Petro, Faulk, OR Krug. It kind of makes you think now... did Doug know this was coming? Maybe he knew that the NMC was the deal breaker and he wasn't going to offer it.