barnburner wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:08 pm

BillP. wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:42 pm Berube got the best out of everyone. Petro was just a different guy this post season. He actually got better and better each round. His name now just moved up the list of elite defensemen. You have to credit Berube for this. Toughening up Petro was no small task and Berube did that.

Exactly right. Everything about Petro's game reeked of timidity to the point that I wanted him gone at any cost. Somehow Chief did the impossible, and turned him into a difference maker, and a legitimate leader.
Berube is the master motivator.

I think there's also a tactical element to it as well. Parayko being able to become the shutdown guy against the other team's top pair gave Petro some better matchups and allowed him to be more offensive. Both of those guys are huge reasons why the team was so dominant 5 on 5 against Boston.

Dave's a mess wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:23 pm

barnburner wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:08 pm

BillP. wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:42 pm Berube got the best out of everyone. Petro was just a different guy this post season. He actually got better and better each round. His name now just moved up the list of elite defensemen. You have to credit Berube for this. Toughening up Petro was no small task and Berube did that.

Exactly right. Everything about Petro's game reeked of timidity to the point that I wanted him gone at any cost. Somehow Chief did the impossible, and turned him into a difference maker, and a legitimate leader.
Berube is the master motivator.

I think there's also a tactical element to it as well. Parayko being able to become the shutdown guy against the other team's top pair gave Petro some better matchups and allowed him to be more offensive. Both of those guys are huge reasons why the team was so dominant 5 on 5 against Boston.

True. Being freed from defending the top players, certainly made it easier for Petro to focus on offense. But in terms of playing physical, clearing the net, and standing up for teammates, we saw a version of Petro in the playoffs that nobody knew existed. Only one person could have made that happen, and imo, that was Berube.

Might not be worth its own thread, so I figured I'd put it here. JayBo is now a member of this exclusive club, pretty big company for a guy whose taken all of the flak that he has.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Gold_Club

barnburner wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:08 pm

BillP. wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:42 pm Berube got the best out of everyone. Petro was just a different guy this post season. He actually got better and better each round. His name now just moved up the list of elite defensemen. You have to credit Berube for this. Toughening up Petro was no small task and Berube did that.

Exactly right. Everything about Petro's game reeked of timidity to the point that I wanted him gone at any cost. Somehow Chief did the impossible, and turned him into a difference maker, and a legitimate leader.
Berube is the master motivator.

that triple gold club is super cool. good for him.

I just read the following article about Vancouver and the number 10 pick. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl ... rall-pick/ The article discusses that while the Canucks really need size and D, the draft board is shaping up to have smaller, skilled forwards at 10. This quote stood out to me:

“The further you go in the playoffs, the better the teams are defensively. St. Louis has a big, strong defence that protects the house. It’s hard to get inside on them. At the end of the day, it’s still about competitiveness and mental toughness and the willingness to get to the net.”

What better way to imitate the Blues defense than by taking one of them! I'd love to see a package featuring Edmundson sent to Vancouver for 10. Obviously the package is going to need a lot more than Jed, but if you start at Edmundson and our second this year, that add some complimentary pieces to get it over the finish line. The parade's over, time to wheel and deal!

T.C. wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:35 pm

barnburner wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:08 pm

BillP. wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:42 pm Berube got the best out of everyone. Petro was just a different guy this post season. He actually got better and better each round. His name now just moved up the list of elite defensemen. You have to credit Berube for this. Toughening up Petro was no small task and Berube did that.

Exactly right. Everything about Petro's game reeked of timidity to the point that I wanted him gone at any cost. Somehow Chief did the impossible, and turned him into a difference maker, and a legitimate leader.
Berube is the master motivator.

the.master_petrochief.jpg
the.master_chiefpetro.jpg

LOL.. Cool.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:39 pm Might not be worth its own thread, so I figured I'd put it here. JayBo is now a member of this exclusive club, pretty big company for a guy whose taken all of the flak that he has.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Gold_Club

Great stuff. Well deserved. Jaybo is, and has been, a class act, and except when hampered by injuries, one of our top two dmen since he came here.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:14 pm Flyers so Mike Yeo gets to watch it in person and be reminded how shitty of a coach he is and we can thank the Flyers for firing Berube and trading us Schenn.

OK, that's also my pick now. There would be a perma-scowl on Mike Yeo's face that game.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:14 pm Flyers so Mike Yeo gets to watch it in person and be reminded how shitty of a coach he is and we can thank the Flyers for firing Berube and trading us Schenn.

Purrrrfect!

Yeah, that contract makes me think the best move might be to trade Schenn. Which really sucks, but for the first time ever we’re pretty well setup to absorb the loss of a top-6 center since we have Thomas.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:31 am Yeah, that contract makes me think the best move might be to trade Schenn. Which really sucks, but for the first time ever we’re pretty well setup to absorb the loss of a top-6 center since we have Thomas.

I think they can make a Schenn extension work. Even if it means letting Maroon walk, Schenn needs to be a Blue long term. Schenn gives you versatility since he can play center or wing. Plus Thomas really didn't even play center this year. Doug is going to try his best to keep him and even if he can extend him this offseason, I bet he keeps him for his final year just to give it another try for a Cup. JMO, but I think there is a 0% chance Schenn gets traded this summer.

if maroon wants to stay here, he will have to continue to take a hometown deal. which i hope he does. but given these other deals, it's becoming clear the blues may have a problem keeping everyone.

MattyIce wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:59 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:31 am Yeah, that contract makes me think the best move might be to trade Schenn. Which really sucks, but for the first time ever we’re pretty well setup to absorb the loss of a top-6 center since we have Thomas.

I think they can make a Schenn extension work. Even if it means letting Maroon walk, Schenn needs to be a Blue long term. Schenn gives you versatility since he can play center or wing. Plus Thomas really didn't even play center this year. Doug is going to try his best to keep him and even if he can extend him this offseason, I bet he keeps him for his final year just to give it another try for a Cup. JMO, but I think there is a 0% chance Schenn gets traded this summer.

I think Armstrong will do his best to keep the band together and see where the Blues are at by the trade deadline next season, then make some hard decisions.

MattyIce wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:59 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:31 am Yeah, that contract makes me think the best move might be to trade Schenn. Which really sucks, but for the first time ever we’re pretty well setup to absorb the loss of a top-6 center since we have Thomas.

I think they can make a Schenn extension work. Even if it means letting Maroon walk, Schenn needs to be a Blue long term. Schenn gives you versatility since he can play center or wing. Plus Thomas really didn't even play center this year. Doug is going to try his best to keep him and even if he can extend him this offseason, I bet he keeps him for his final year just to give it another try for a Cup. JMO, but I think there is a 0% chance Schenn gets traded this summer.

Ideally, yes, I would like to keep Schenn. I also don't think they will trade Schenn this summer. If he's going to command an 8M+ deal though for 7-8 years...I think they should trade him. They probably won't like you said. But I doubt they're going to be able to afford him. Maroon walking isn't going to help much. Then you have to look down the line a bit--do you want to be paying Schenn 8M+ when you need to re-sign Tarasnko and ROR in a few years? Love Schenn, but you can only have so many top dollar players on the team, and paying Schenn will likely prevent us from being able to pay those guys down the road.

When does Thomas become due for his next RFA contract? I like Thomas but part of me wonders whose better long term?

Schenn 7x7

Or

Thomas 5-6x7 on his next dealas it seems many top end players are getting paid in their second contract.

I may be in the vast minority here, but Thomas's injury history and size concerns me as a number 2c. Unless DA can do a bridge deal with Thomas?

bradleygt89 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:34 am When does Thomas become due for his next RFA contract? I like Thomas but part of me wonders whose better long term?

Schenn 7x7

Or

Thomas 5-6x7 on his next dealas it seems many top end players are getting paid in their second contract.

I may be in the vast minority here, but Thomas's injury history and size concerns me as a number 2c. Unless DA can do a bridge deal with Thomas?

He has two years left on his entry level deal. Ideally, we keep both. If you do sign Schenn, then it probably means no Maroon (unless Maroon is cool with a one year deal again) and finding someone to take on Bozak.

Also keep in mind Petro is going to get re-signed. I know we had lots of talk about trading him and such, but after this SC run there is no way they don't re-sign him. Petro has a $7M cap hit right now. We all know JBo is done after this year, his cap hit is $3.25M. Petro will get a lot of that...Karlsson just got $11M, lets say Petro gets $9.5M. Some salary is going to have to get moved out (Bozak) and some young players are going to have to produce on entry level deals (Reinke, Kyrou, etc) if we want to re-sign Schenn.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:56 am

bradleygt89 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:34 am When does Thomas become due for his next RFA contract? I like Thomas but part of me wonders whose better long term?

Schenn 7x7

Or

Thomas 5-6x7 on his next dealas it seems many top end players are getting paid in their second contract.

I may be in the vast minority here, but Thomas's injury history and size concerns me as a number 2c. Unless DA can do a bridge deal with Thomas?

He has two years left on his entry level deal. Ideally, we keep both. If you do sign Schenn, then it probably means no Maroon (unless Maroon is cool with a one year deal again) and finding someone to take on Bozak.

Also keep in mind Petro is going to get re-signed. I know we had lots of talk about trading him and such, but after this SC run there is no way they don't re-sign him. Petro has a $7M cap hit right now. We all know JBo is done after this year, his cap hit is $3.25M. Petro will get a lot of that...Karlsson just got $11M, lets say Petro gets $9.5M. Some salary is going to have to get moved out (Bozak) and some young players are going to have to produce on entry level deals (Reinke, Kyrou, etc) if we want to re-sign Schenn.

Another thing that Army has to consider with re-signing players is the Seattle expansion draft. Seattle is going to get someone good from the Blues.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:56 am

bradleygt89 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:34 am When does Thomas become due for his next RFA contract? I like Thomas but part of me wonders whose better long term?

Schenn 7x7

Or

Thomas 5-6x7 on his next dealas it seems many top end players are getting paid in their second contract.

I may be in the vast minority here, but Thomas's injury history and size concerns me as a number 2c. Unless DA can do a bridge deal with Thomas?

He has two years left on his entry level deal. Ideally, we keep both. If you do sign Schenn, then it probably means no Maroon (unless Maroon is cool with a one year deal again) and finding someone to take on Bozak.

Also keep in mind Petro is going to get re-signed. I know we had lots of talk about trading him and such, but after this SC run there is no way they don't re-sign him. Petro has a $7M cap hit right now. We all know JBo is done after this year, his cap hit is $3.25M. Petro will get a lot of that...Karlsson just got $11M, lets say Petro gets $9.5M. Some salary is going to have to get moved out (Bozak) and some young players are going to have to produce on entry level deals (Reinke, Kyrou, etc) if we want to re-sign Schenn.

It's going to be such a tricky offseason. If you keep and extend Schenn, you have to figure out who's playing wing the next 2 years since Bozak is probably locking down that 3C role. Also, not only are you going to have to account for the eventual raises to the young forwards (Blais, Sundqvist, Sanford, Kyrou, Barbashev etc), you're going to have to have spots for them to play. Most of those guys aren't due for huge raises, but they'll get something and with the cap not predicted to go up as much as they originally thought, every little bit helps. Somebody is going to have to go. Schenn still makes a lot of logical sense to move on, but Armstrong is surely aware there's no chance in hell they win the Cup this year without him.

On the defensive end, there's a similar glut of NHL caliber guys, with only Gunnarsson seeming to be on his way out. Reinke, Mikkola and Perunovich probably factor in over the next year or two as well. The curse of having great depth is that you can't keep the band together for too long. It will be fascinating to see who has a chair in St. Louis when the music stops.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:20 am It's going to be such a tricky offseason. If you keep and extend Schenn, you have to figure out who's playing wing the next 2 years since Bozak is probably locking down that 3C role. Also, not only are you going to have to account for the eventual raises to the young forwards (Blais, Sundqvist, Sanford, Kyrou, Barbashev etc), you're going to have to have spots for them to play. Most of those guys aren't due for huge raises, but they'll get something and with the cap not predicted to go up as much as they originally thought, every little bit helps. Somebody is going to have to go. Schenn still makes a lot of logical sense to move on, but Armstrong is surely aware there's no chance in hell they win the Cup this year without him.

On the defensive end, there's a similar glut of NHL caliber guys, with only Gunnarsson seeming to be on his way out. Reinke, Mikkola and Perunovich probably factor in over the next year or two as well. The curse of having great depth is that you can't keep the band together for too long. It will be fascinating to see who has a chair in St. Louis when the music stops.

This is why I think you have to move Bozak if they're keeping Schenn. From all accounts earlier in the year the Blues see Thomas as a center. Army even said at one point last offseason that there is potential to play Thomas at center with ROR and Tarasenko on his wings. Now, I don't see ROR ever moving from C now, but the point remains that they see Thomas as a center and want him playing there. So one would have to figure (due to age and contract) that the 2/3 C's moving forward will be either Schenn/Thomas or Thomas/Bozak.

Something that also could simplify this...finding someone to take on Steen and/or Allen. Steen's $5.75M and Allen's $4.35 for 2 years is going to start to hurt next year, and especially so the year after next when raises for Petro and potentially Schenn happen.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:28 am

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:20 am It's going to be such a tricky offseason. If you keep and extend Schenn, you have to figure out who's playing wing the next 2 years since Bozak is probably locking down that 3C role. Also, not only are you going to have to account for the eventual raises to the young forwards (Blais, Sundqvist, Sanford, Kyrou, Barbashev etc), you're going to have to have spots for them to play. Most of those guys aren't due for huge raises, but they'll get something and with the cap not predicted to go up as much as they originally thought, every little bit helps. Somebody is going to have to go. Schenn still makes a lot of logical sense to move on, but Armstrong is surely aware there's no chance in hell they win the Cup this year without him.

On the defensive end, there's a similar glut of NHL caliber guys, with only Gunnarsson seeming to be on his way out. Reinke, Mikkola and Perunovich probably factor in over the next year or two as well. The curse of having great depth is that you can't keep the band together for too long. It will be fascinating to see who has a chair in St. Louis when the music stops.

This is why I think you have to move Bozak if they're keeping Schenn. From all accounts earlier in the year the Blues see Thomas as a center. Army even said at one point last offseason that there is potential to play Thomas at center with ROR and Tarasenko on his wings. Now, I don't see ROR ever moving from C now, but the point remains that they see Thomas as a center and want him playing there. So one would have to figure (due to age and contract) that the 2/3 C's moving forward will be either Schenn/Thomas or Thomas/Bozak.

Something that also could simplify this...finding someone to take on Steen and/or Allen. Steen's $5.75M and Allen's $4.35 for 2 years is going to start to hurt next year, and especially so the year after next when raises for Petro and potentially Schenn happen.

All good points. Armstrong obviously isn't afraid of making a big splash at the draft, so we won't have to wait too long to start getting some answers. With the cap not being settled until Saturday apparently, I wonder if that hinders trade action between now and then. I'd hate to see it unsettle the draft day trade action.

So lots of people on this forum are keen on moving Allen this summer, for obvious reasons. I don't necessarily disagree by any means, but if you find a taker, you need to find someone to backup Binnington since by all accounts that injury to Husso basically means he'll need more time in the AHL next season. With that in mind, the UFA market for goalies isn't great: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free ... ll/goalies

Most guys on that list are either too expensive, not any better than Jake, or both. It's a tough call, but between the cost of whatever asset you'd need to include to dump Allen and the less than ideal market, I almost lean towards just keeping Jake and riding the next 2 years out. If nothing else, Jake can provide a fair amount of starts to keep Binnington fresh. He did well in the backup role this season once the new pecking order was firmly established.

What if they can snag back B Elliott for say 2 years at $2-3M as his backup? He is a UFA.

Not sure what he has left, but he always thrived as a backup goalie more so than a starter, and not sure what his feelings would be about coming back to STL.

Dave's a mess wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:00 pm So lots of people on this forum are keen on moving Allen this summer, for obvious reasons. I don't necessarily disagree by any means, but if you find a taker, you need to find someone to backup Binnington since by all accounts that injury to Husso basically means he'll need more time in the AHL next season. With that in mind, the UFA market for goalies isn't great: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free ... ll/goalies

Most guys on that list are either too expensive, not any better than Jake, or both. It's a tough call, but between the cost of whatever asset you'd need to include to dump Allen and the less than ideal market, I almost lean towards just keeping Jake and riding the next 2 years out. If nothing else, Jake can provide a fair amount of starts to keep Binnington fresh. He did well in the backup role this season once the new pecking order was firmly established.

I'm with you. No need to upset the applecart unless they have a willing taker for Allen and we get something out of it instead of just a salary dump.