BillP. wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:27 pm

ratonmono wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:14 pm https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-network-to ... =290583266

NHL Network has begun their top 20 players series. O'Reilly ranked 12th best center. Personally I'd rather have O'Reilly than Seguin and Point for sure, and Malkin as always should be ranked higher than he is. Otherwise decent list.

Take last season out of the equation and ROR probably doesn’t even make list. Agree?

NHL Network's list? Probably not. I think he was in the honorable mentions maybe 18-20 range in the past few years.

Honestly I'd drop Stamkos and Point both waaay down the list from where they are now that I think about it.

I love lists and since absolutely no one asked, here's my top 20 going into this year:

1 McDavid
2 Crosby
3 MacKinnon
4 Barkov
5 Matthews
6 Bergeron
7 O'Reilly
8 Malkin
9 Tavares
10 Backstrom
11 Schiefele
12 Kuznetsov
13 Point
14 Couturier
15 Stamkos
16 Seguin
17 Eichel
18 Couture
19 Aho
20 Toews

BluesSK wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:24 pm

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:23 pm

NHLTIM wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:10 pm $1,970,406....thats what we have left

Technically we have that +$700k, because Capfriendly has Pouliot on our roster (8D), which won't be the case once Barbashev signs. So closer to $2.6M in space.

Drop MacEachern too.

That gives you 3.42 Mil in cap space.

Army should be able to get Barbs signed.

ratonmono wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:39 pm

BillP. wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:27 pm

ratonmono wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:14 pm https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-network-to ... =290583266

NHL Network has begun their top 20 players series. O'Reilly ranked 12th best center. Personally I'd rather have O'Reilly than Seguin and Point for sure, and Malkin as always should be ranked higher than he is. Otherwise decent list.

Take last season out of the equation and ROR probably doesn’t even make list. Agree?

NHL Network's list? Probably not. I think he was in the honorable mentions maybe 18-20 range in the past few years.

Honestly I'd drop Stamkos and Point both waaay down the list from where they are now that I think about it.

I love lists and since absolutely no one asked, here's my top 20 going into this year:

1 McDavid
2 Crosby
3 MacKinnon
4 Barkov
5 Matthews
6 Bergeron
7 O'Reilly
8 Malkin
9 Tavares
10 Backstrom
11 Schiefele
12 Kuznetsov
13 Point
14 Couturier
15 Stamkos
16 Seguin
17 Eichel
18 Couture
19 Aho
20 Toews

I like it. I’d even consider ROR above Matthews and Barkov.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:59 pm

If my math is right, four years would take Barbashev right to UFA status and not buy any UFA years. Ideally we give him a shorter term than that

That’s not an unreasonable request by Barbashev. The guy was your leading hitter during the Cup run.
With Sanford getting 1.5m, I don’t see how you don’t give Barbs 2m. I’m guessing term is the issue here but I do think Barbs might continue to improve and I think he’s reached the point where he’s a tradeable asset now if the Blues ever want to go that route.

BillP. wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:42 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:59 pm

If my math is right, four years would take Barbashev right to UFA status and not buy any UFA years. Ideally we give him a shorter term than that

That’s not an unreasonable request by Barbashev. The guy was your leading hitter during the Cup run.
With Sanford getting 1.5m, I don’t see how you don’t give Barbs 2m. I’m guessing term is the issue here but I do think Barbs might continue to improve and I think he’s reached the point where he’s a tradeable asset now if the Blues ever want to go that route.

Yeah, I have no issue with Barbashev at that AAV. I just always don't like deals that take players straight to UFA. I know its the direction the league is going in, but IMO when you draft and develop a player you have to find a way to get him signed through some UFA years, whether that means longer term to start (which is risky) or a shorter term followed by another deal when the player is restricted again.

Or maybe now with the way the league is going, you should be focused on drafting/developing more Barbashevs, keeping them for a cheap cap hit right until UFA, and then let them go and have the next guy ready to step up from the minors when he leaves. It might not be smart cap-wise to keep guys like this for too long when, while good players, are more replaceable with guys on entry level/low cap hit RFA deals.

I think ROR should move up one spot on that list and I think Scheifele should be in the top 8.

My takeaway from this list is that there are a lot of damn good centers right now. I keep thinking guys are too low but it's hard to knock any of the guys above them. I will say Point kicks ass though, don't sleep on him.

I wonder if Maroon's agent has been told by DA that the Blues are working on a trade to try and free up cap space?

Otherwise, I can't figure out why Maroon would be taking so long to sign a contract with another team unless he has some hope of still returning.

ratonmono wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:39 pm NHL Network's list? Probably not. I think he was in the honorable mentions maybe 18-20 range in the past few years.

Honestly I'd drop Stamkos and Point both waaay down the list from where they are now that I think about it.

I love lists and since absolutely no one asked, here's my top 20 going into this year:

1 McDavid
2 Crosby
3 MacKinnon
4 Barkov
5 Matthews
6 Bergeron
7 O'Reilly
8 Malkin
9 Tavares
10 Backstrom
11 Schiefele
12 Kuznetsov
13 Point
14 Couturier
15 Stamkos
16 Seguin
17 Eichel
18 Couture
19 Aho
20 Toews

Imagine thinking Toews is better than SunnyD

This list is invalid.

Malkin before Bergeron. If it is just for the upcoming season, then I'd probably take him over Matthews too. It is close.

That list plus good goaltending can make you a contender. It's much easier to see know how much having both were needed in retrospect.

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:26 am

BillP. wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:42 am

UMSLBlues12 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:59 pm

If my math is right, four years would take Barbashev right to UFA status and not buy any UFA years. Ideally we give him a shorter term than that

That’s not an unreasonable request by Barbashev. The guy was your leading hitter during the Cup run.
With Sanford getting 1.5m, I don’t see how you don’t give Barbs 2m. I’m guessing term is the issue here but I do think Barbs might continue to improve and I think he’s reached the point where he’s a tradeable asset now if the Blues ever want to go that route.

Or maybe now with the way the league is going, you should be focused on drafting/developing more Barbashevs, keeping them for a cheap cap hit right until UFA, and then let them go and have the next guy ready to step up from the minors when he leaves. It might not be smart cap-wise to keep guys like this for too long when, while good players, are more replaceable with guys on entry level/low cap hit RFA deals.

I agree, I’d like for the Blues to keep developing the Barbies, Sunny’s and Blais’. Instead of investing in Sobotkas and Berglunds, you should have guys ready to step in. Seems like all the teams that win Cups have kids stepping in that year as part of the success story.

There's not much room in the forward lines but I think Blais could be the guy who steps up and plays well for the big club this year.

Hoping Mac Mac and Kostin get some looks this year.

Back on goalies: I personally expect that Jake plays out the remainder of his deal here, Husso is dealt at some point, and either another backup is brought in in two years or one of the Fitzpatrick/Ellis kids is ready for that role.

Oates2Hullie450 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:14 am Back on goalies: I personally expect that Jake plays out the remainder of his deal here, Husso is dealt at some point, and either another backup is brought in in two years or one of the Fitzpatrick/Ellis kids is ready for that role.

Agreed.

By the way, I look at it is this: If who the Blues' backup goalie is going to be for the next couple of seasons is the only 'controversy/discussion' we can drum up over the summer few weeks before camp opens and 70+ days before drop of the puck, we are doing good

Oates2Hullie450 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:14 am Back on goalies: I personally expect that Jake plays out the remainder of his deal here, Husso is dealt at some point, and either another backup is brought in in two years or one of the Fitzpatrick/Ellis kids is ready for that role.

I still don't understand the idea of keeping Allen as the back-up. It seems the #1 reason for it is if JB50 was a fluke, but it's not like Jake Allen is going to be much of a safety net. If JB50 bust out, this team is in big trouble regardless who the backup is.

BillP. wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:09 pmI agree, I’d like for the Blues to keep developing the Barbies, Sunny’s and Blais’. ...

I had to read that last bit twice, to make sure it wasn't the initial cast list for a "Real Housewives of St. Louis" spinoff.

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:13 am

Oates2Hullie450 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:14 am Back on goalies: I personally expect that Jake plays out the remainder of his deal here, Husso is dealt at some point, and either another backup is brought in in two years or one of the Fitzpatrick/Ellis kids is ready for that role.

I still don't understand the idea of keeping Allen as the back-up. It seems the #1 reason for it is if JB50 was a fluke, but it's not like Jake Allen is going to be much of a safety net. If JB50 bust out, this team is in big trouble regardless who the backup is.

I think the lack of options for trustworthy backups outside the organization played a huge role in that decision. Best case scenario this year is for Husso to return to form and press the issue.

Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:00 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:13 am

Oates2Hullie450 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:14 am Back on goalies: I personally expect that Jake plays out the remainder of his deal here, Husso is dealt at some point, and either another backup is brought in in two years or one of the Fitzpatrick/Ellis kids is ready for that role.

I still don't understand the idea of keeping Allen as the back-up. It seems the #1 reason for it is if JB50 was a fluke, but it's not like Jake Allen is going to be much of a safety net. If JB50 bust out, this team is in big trouble regardless who the backup is.

I think the lack of options for trustworthy backups outside the organization played a huge role in that decision. Best case scenario this year is for Husso to return to form and press the issue.

Jake makes too much bread to be a backup here... CBJ needs a goalie, and they have the tons of cap space.... tell them that they can have Jake for pick or prospect but they have to take Steen. ( Army always says that he can get around NTCs) Send Jed to VGK for NJD 2020 3rd - and our 2021 2nd .... Take the loot and offer-sheet Marner. Flame away.

Turk Sanderson wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:11 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:00 pm

Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:13 am

I still don't understand the idea of keeping Allen as the back-up. It seems the #1 reason for it is if JB50 was a fluke, but it's not like Jake Allen is going to be much of a safety net. If JB50 bust out, this team is in big trouble regardless who the backup is.

I think the lack of options for trustworthy backups outside the organization played a huge role in that decision. Best case scenario this year is for Husso to return to form and press the issue.

Jake makes too much bread to be a backup here... CBJ needs a goalie, and they have the tons of cap space.... tell them that they can have Jake for pick or prospect but they have to take Steen. ( Army always says that he can get around NTCs) Send Jed to VGK for NJD 2020 3rd - and our 2021 2nd .... Take the loot and offer-sheet Marner. Flame away.

Not really; considering goalie tandems in the NHL, the Blues are under $9M; which is less than many other teams. I don't think it is a worry about JB50 not having a success as much as what are you going to get in return for Jake that make it worth it, and no way do I want Binnington playing more than 50-55 games. So we have to have a reliable backup who can handle 25-30 games IMO. We saw what happened when we went cheap with Chad Johnson last season...it destroyed the team. Jake will provide good backup and give us those games needed and a chance to win; his best hockey has always been when he is challenged and doesn't have the #1A tag on him. I'd rather us go with the team we have now than try to upset the chemistry for no other reason than to create cap space. Damn the cap space. We have essentually the same team, ready to defend the Cup.

And if it comes down to either having Jake Allen and Kyrou on the team, or a shady backup and Maroon on the team, I'll take Jake and Kyrou all day long.

bradleygt89 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:32 pm

Turk Sanderson wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:11 pm

Dave's a mess wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:00 pm

I think the lack of options for trustworthy backups outside the organization played a huge role in that decision. Best case scenario this year is for Husso to return to form and press the issue.

Jake makes too much bread to be a backup here... CBJ needs a goalie, and they have the tons of cap space.... tell them that they can have Jake for pick or prospect but they have to take Steen. ( Army always says that he can get around NTCs) Send Jed to VGK for NJD 2020 3rd - and our 2021 2nd .... Take the loot and offer-sheet Marner. Flame away.

Not really; considering goalie tandems in the NHL, the Blues are under $9M; which is less than many other teams. I don't think it is a worry about JB50 not having a success as much as what are you going to get in return for Jake that make it worth it, and no way do I want Binnington playing more than 50-55 games. So we have to have a reliable backup who can handle 25-30 games IMO. We saw what happened when we went cheap with Chad Johnson last season...it destroyed the team. Jake will provide good backup and give us those games needed and a chance to win; his best hockey has always been when he is challenged and doesn't have the #1A tag on him. I'd rather us go with the team we have now than try to upset the chemistry for no other reason than to create cap space. Damn the cap space. We have essentually the same team, ready to defend the Cup.

And if it comes down to either having Jake Allen and Kyrou on the team, or a shady backup and Maroon on the team, I'll take Jake and Kyrou all day long.

Cap space to re-sign Maroon and flexibility to make a deadline deal during the season plus whatever draft pick they get for him is enough to make it worth it for me personally. So I guess we disagree there.

So, let's say they did that; what's your take for these two questions:

1.Who is your backup?
2. How many games do you want Binnington to start during the regular season, with hopes that he can also handle 20+ more games in the playoffs two years in a row?

I think those have to be answered before we (in our imaginary GM role) ship of Jake for a draft pick just to bring back a bottom 6 30+ year old player who's been pretty banged up in his career and may get you 25-30 points....something that Kyrou or Kostin or MacMac should be able to provide the team with, for much cheaper.

bradleygt89 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:57 pm So, let's say they did that; what's your take for these two questions:

1.Who is your backup?
2. How many games do you want Binnington to start during the regular season, with hopes that he can also handle 20+ more games in the playoffs two years in a row?

I think those have to be answered before we (in our imaginary GM role) ship of Jake for a draft pick just to bring back a bottom 6 30+ year old player who's been pretty banged up in his career and may get you 25-30 points....something that Kyrou or Kostin or MacMac should be able to provide the team with, for much cheaper.

1. Husso, but if Cam Ward is desperate for a contract and you want some veteran assurance that works too.
2. 52

The Blues are a good enough team that I think Husso(or Ward) could be .500 for them and that's really all you need out of a backup.

Also, I don't think it's fair to try and limit Maroon's value to simply his point totals.

bradleygt89 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:57 pm So, let's say they did that; what's your take for these two questions:

1.Who is your backup?
2. How many games do you want Binnington to start during the regular season, with hopes that he can also handle 20+ more games in the playoffs two years in a row?

I think those have to be answered before we (in our imaginary GM role) ship of Jake for a draft pick just to bring back a bottom 6 30+ year old player who's been pretty banged up in his career and may get you 25-30 points....something that Kyrou or Kostin or MacMac should be able to provide the team with, for much cheaper.

My backup is either Husso or Fitz...let them battle it out in camp. The guy who ain't my backup is Jake....end of story. Neither of those guys can do worse than Jake at letting in weak goals.... I'm long past done with him. My plan didn't include Maroon anyway, unless he can be squeezed in later... if not, there should be plenty of goals without him.

I think Jake Allen is going to put up lights out numbers as a backup here. He’s relaxed, no pressure, probably is motivated to prove himself, will be a spot starter. I’m telling you he’s going to be awesome. He might fetch us a Number 1 pick if Army wants to pull the string later in the year.