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Blues Team Toughness Article

1 by Dave's a mess
JR had a piece this morning about the Blues team toughness. It used the Jamie Benn Petro park bench incident to highlight the Blues lack of toughness and ability to be pushed around last year. Points out that despite a really strong offseason, basically the only acquisition that might increase team toughness is Maroon. You'd hope to have some organic growth in team toughness after having to hear about that Benn incident for the last few months, but can a tiger really change its stripes? Anyway it's a good piece with some quotes from Army and some other players around the league.

https://theathletic.com/419378/2018/07/ ... gh-enough/
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

2 by MattyIce
I don't think the Blues need to add toughness in the sense of sheer number of hits or checking ability. They need to add toughness in the sense of sticking up for each other, fighting through adversity throughout the year, and just having an overall team swagger. Maroon should help that hopefully.
KA-KAW!

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

3 by RAFritchey
If we had a power play that was worth a hoot, players wouldn't take some of those kinds of liberties. You still want to be able to match players who are hitting hard and playing physical, of course, but those 'disrespect' kind of stunts that are more mind-games or 'showing off' than physical play might cost your team the game now. (Hopefully!)

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

5 by BillP
RAFritchey wrote:If we had a power play that was worth a hoot, players wouldn't take some of those kinds of liberties. You still want to be able to match players who are hitting hard and playing physical, of course, but those 'disrespect' kind of stunts that are more mind-games or 'showing off' than physical play might cost your team the game now. (Hopefully!)

Blues PP will definitely be improved but they still have the issue of who's going to run it. Should be Dunn on the 1st unit but still, the biggest issue is running it at the point. Still needs to be worked out. Dunn should be able to do it but he still has to prove it.

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

6 by T.C.
this will continue to be the blues' #1 problem this year. only hope for them is being so good in other areas as to offset this shortcoming. which, frankly, i don't think is possible. really depends on the guys and how consistent they are in dedication to each other. perron can add quite a bit here after his experience in vegas last year. but with capt tepid, will it matter?

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

7 by ratonmono
One thing that can help in this area that maybe people are overlooking is the possibility of a guy like Foley to crack the roster. I hardly think Soshnikov, Jaskin, and Barbashev are guaranteed spots on that 4th line. If Foley comes in and impresses that would be one more guy with some physical edge that can play.

Though I still think the reaction to cheap shots is still one of the biggest non-issues league-wide. You just don't see teams retaliate for these things like you used to. They happen, and when it happens to your team it stinks but there's no frontier justice in the league any longer. Also remember that plenty of times our guys have dealt out cheap shots and not paid the price for them. (Lapierre and Backes come to mind).

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

8 by Dave's a mess
T.C. wrote:this will continue to be the blues' #1 problem this year. only hope for them is being so good in other areas as to offset this shortcoming. which, frankly, i don't think is possible. really depends on the guys and how consistent they are in dedication to each other. perron can add quite a bit here after his experience in vegas last year. but with capt tepid, will it matter?
I agree that the lack of toughness will be a problem at points this season, but I think the gains in other areas should result in a much improved team overall. I wouldn't say this team is a certified Cup contender, but I think they're going to challenge for second in the division if Allen holds up, and the West is still fairly wide open. I expect one of Nashville/Winnepeg to scuffle a bit more than last year, but still be there in April.
...but whatever, the Blues won the Cup!!!!!

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

11 by Cotton McKnight
I agree with the idea that if our PP was better, we'd not get messed with.

I don't see Petro leading us to a better PP, unfortunately, but I'd be happy if he proved me wrong.

I really hope one of coaches, and new additions can bring something new to the PP units so the group think of looking like they don't know what they're doing goes away.

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

12 by BillP
Cotton McKnight wrote: I really hope one of coaches, and new additions can bring something new to the PP units so the group think of looking like they don't know what they're doing goes away.
Boy, will the coaches get reamed if the PP isn't top 10. Unless they deem Top 15 as acceptable. But I'm thinking the expectations will be higher than that.

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

13 by wannabebluesplayer
I put this in the comments section of the article, but I know most of you can't see it.
This is 100% an element that has been lost on the Blues recently. However, if you look at the past 5 years, the Cup winners have been LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh x2, and Washington. LA played the heavier style, but they had the scoring and goaltending to compliment. Washington had a good mix of rough and tumble with high-end skill. Pittsburgh and Chicago beat teams with strong sticks and turnovers. I think you just need to find that perfect mix and if you have a team that's playing for each other and playing with passion, I don't think you see the Pietrangelo or Thompson play go uncontested.

There's individual toughness and there is team toughness. I think the Blues were more missing the team toughness which comes from playing for each other and playing with pride. I think the guys brought in will help bring that back, especially Maroon. Outside of Thorburn and Schenn, there really weren't those guys last season.

Many fans, I think unfairly, put it on Pietrangelo for the team having no back bone, but is that really on Pietrangelo? As you mentioned in your article, did Lidstrom have to fight or get angry? Do you see Sid getting in some one's face every time something happens. I think Pietrangelo is a good captain for this team as he's a Lidstrom-esque. He's vocal, but his leadership comes from his play, demeanor, etc. Was he mad at Benn? I'm sure he was, but he knew the game was important and he's not the kind of player to take a dumb penalty, take himself off the ice, in an important game.
I know most here disagree about my thinking of Pietrangelo, but honestly, I think the lack of any response is more an indictment of the rest of the leadership and the team. I think in the article and IIRC, Schenn was the only dude who even said something to Benn. Where were the other vets who could have stepped up? Where was Bortuzzo? You don't want your most important players taking themselves off the ice for retaliating, but you do want some sort of a response. I think the Blues lost a good chunk of the influential veteran presence that basically let that stuff go last year. Wasn't it Rutherford who reported that there were too many "let if roll off your back" players in the locker room last year? Stastny has been reported as one of them. He's gone. I don't see how anyone could argue Berglund and Sobotka weren't also two of those types. You could tell it from their demeanor and the way they played. They're gone. That's three replaced by O'Reilly, Bozak, Maroon, and Perron, who by all accounts, are very prideful players. This is why I think you'll see that uptick in team toughness. It won't be hits, but it will be more pride.
Last edited by wannabebluesplayer on Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

14 by T.C.
that's a fine opinion. but a good captain can alter his leadership style so that his message is heard loud and clear in whatever way is easiest for the composition of teammates. maybe i'm wrong, but i just don't think it's a coincidence that this team has 100% reflected the personality of petro. could be the wrong personnel. guess we'll find out in a few months.

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

15 by wannabebluesplayer
T.C. wrote:that's a fine opinion. but a good captain can alter his leadership style so that his message is heard loud and clear in whatever way is easiest for the composition of teammates. maybe i'm wrong, but i just don't think it's a coincidence that this team has 100% reflected the personality of petro. could be the wrong personnel. guess we'll find out in a few months.
You responded before I edited my post. I don't disagree that some of it is on Petro, but I don't like that it was being primarily ALL blamed on Petro. No one seemed to place any blame on Steen or Stastny, who I don't think anyone can argue are influential players in that locker room. Plus, attitudes that Berglund and Sobotka had apparently developed can be cancers as well.

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

16 by T.C.
wannabebluesplayer wrote:
T.C. wrote:that's a fine opinion. but a good captain can alter his leadership style so that his message is heard loud and clear in whatever way is easiest for the composition of teammates. maybe i'm wrong, but i just don't think it's a coincidence that this team has 100% reflected the personality of petro. could be the wrong personnel. guess we'll find out in a few months.
You responded before I edited my post. I don't disagree that some of it is on Petro, but I don't like that it was being primarily ALL blamed on Petro. No one seemed to place any blame on Steen or Stastny, who I don't think anyone can argue are influential players in that locker room. Plus, attitudes that Berglund and Sobotka had apparently developed can be cancers as well.
oh, 100%. ROR, bozak, maroon can completely change the attitude in the room. 100%. it will come down to 1) how petro handles them, and 2) how much they defer to petro.

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

20 by NHLTIM
We signed Jordan Nolan....he’s going to play some games here. We’ve got Thorburn and Maroon, we’ve got Eddy. We might not have the baddest dude in the league anymore but I’m not worried about team toughness at all.
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Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

24 by insideout
Doug Glatt wrote:Maybe we should define team toughness differently. Going into this season I have a lot more confidence in the retooled Blues responding by scoring a big, timely goal. That's my preferred response.
That's kind of what I meant by them needing to improve their mental toughness.

Re: Blues Team Toughness Article

25 by 39hurricane
I'm not so sure about how important toughness is in the league anymore. Vegas and Winnipeg are doing it with speed and skill and really good goaltending.

Jed Bortz and Thorburn are tough but don't make the scoresheet often.

The Mustangs took Youngblood instead of Racki and they got a championship out of it.
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