Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:43 pm
ROR confirmed to be wearing #90, Soshnikov switching to 86.
UMSLBlues12 wrote:ROR confirmed to be wearing #90, Soshnikov switching to 86.
Far too many people think they know the formula for winning the Cup and every year they are proven wrong.Doug Glatt wrote:It is a results driven league. Look at Ovie. If he never won the cup, there would be a stain on his legacy. People always talked about how he could never win the cup. It isn't fair, but it is how the world works.T.C. wrote:fantastic.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:
i don't know how you can judge army on what happens in the post season. like the president's trophy winning blues in 1999-2000 getting swept in the first round - was that a poorly-assembled team? if the Cup was won on paper, we wouldn't need to play the games, and we certainly wouldn't have a story like VGK.
So true.CaptSMRT wrote:Far too many people think they know the formula for winning the Cup and every year they are proven wrong.Doug Glatt wrote:It is a results driven league. Look at Ovie. If he never won the cup, there would be a stain on his legacy. People always talked about how he could never win the cup. It isn't fair, but it is how the world works.T.C. wrote: fantastic.
i don't know how you can judge army on what happens in the post season. like the president's trophy winning blues in 1999-2000 getting swept in the first round - was that a poorly-assembled team? if the Cup was won on paper, we wouldn't need to play the games, and we certainly wouldn't have a story like VGK.
i think Huey Lewis is more appropriate for these two: "...(s)he's hot & cold..."bradleygt89 wrote:Heart and soul, I fell in love with youstlblues1226 wrote:Here are some of my favorites from the HFBoards link:
And I stopped at around page 16 or so. Pretty entertaining.Sigh, traded a dollar for 2 nickels, 2 pennies, and a Canadian penny. Oh, and no defensemen.
Jesus ****ing christ. On the day Toronto signs one of the best players in the league, you trade ROR for a bag of ****. This team is ****ed.
... ugh
ROR for depth and lotto tickets
(I was a big Tage Thompson booster in his draft year.... honestly has one of the best one timers I’ve ever seen... but slow as molasses)
I was just hating on Doug Armstrong not even an hour ago and now I'm blown away. Okay Doug, you got my attention.
Where’s the speed Lebowski? Where’s the speed?
4 ****ing years of Berglund? W in t absolute f?
Jesus h Christ that return is awful
This is like listing your house on a "make me move" offer and trading it for a used Dodge neon and a buy one get one colonoscopy coupon . We took two salary dumps, a b prospect, and two picks that won't help us before my 40th. **** .
There is a hilarious amount of stupid wasted cap space on this roster rightnow...
I mean we took money back and still couldn't get Kyrou or Thomas. What kind of incompetent GM pulls that off?
At this point, the best thing I can say is somehow I’ve managed not to throw my phone at anything.
The only plus is that the takes here are slightly better than Facebook takes
Living in the midwest, I see a ton of Blues games. Berglund and Sobotka are not cap dumps. They are two heart and soul guys that bust ass every shift. This is all about the culture change. We are a better team today than we were 24 hours ago.
Heart and soul, the way a fool would do, madly
Because you held me tight
And stole a kiss in the night
Heart and soul, I begged to be adored
Lost control, and tumbled overboard, gladly
That magic night we kissed
There in the moon mist
Oh! but your lips were thrilling, much too thrilling
Never before were mine so strangely willing
Read more: Hoagy Carmichael - Heart And Soul Lyrics | MetroLyrics
I think it's pretty easy to judge him on what happens in the postseason, especially since he's been fully accountable for the rosters and every contract handed out to a guy on a Blues roster for about 5 years now.T.C. wrote:fantastic.
i don't know how you can judge army on what happens in the post season. like the president's trophy winning blues in 1999-2000 getting swept in the first round - was that a poorly-assembled team? if the Cup was won on paper, we wouldn't need to play the games, and we certainly wouldn't have a story like VGK.
If you're pointing fingers, underperforming players = GM. Sometimes it's coaching, sometimes it's bad luck or bad fortune, sometimes it's injuries, sometimes it's ownership not providing necessary support. But I don't understand how it can be on underperforming players but not the person in charge of personnel. Particularly over multiple seasons.... why are players who don't live up to their potential being brought back? The only excuse for not moving a player who doesn't live up to his potential is being stuck with a bad contract, which again is on the GM. If it's a matter of not having the resources to get the players you need or a matter of not winning the McDavid, Crosby,Ovechkin et al lottery, then you could call it bad fortune and say it's not Army's fault. That would be a reasonable argument. But if it's a matter talented players who just can't put it together, that's GM all the way.bradleygt89 wrote:We may not have lost to the best team which won the Final, but we did lose to several WC championship teams: SJ, Nashville.
Besides the Kings, I thought the Hawks beat us in route to a Cup?
And if winning the Cup and playoffs is your judgement, even with all those stats you threw out, let's put them in context vs his competition, and I'd bet he's in the to 5-10 of all GMs in that time.
Lastly, sure DA is accountable, but he's also been proactive in adjusting his roster to find the best team, for both regular and post season.
Final: DA ain't perfect and deserves some criticism. But to act like he's more responsible than the players on the ice who don't live up to their potential, I'd say more falls on the players, then the coaching, then the GM.
This argument completely discards the draft. The Pens and the Hawks rode very high draft picks in Crosby Malkin, Toews, Kane, all the way to multiple championships.insideout wrote:If you're pointing fingers, underperforming players = GM. Sometimes it's coaching, sometimes it's bad luck or bad fortune, sometimes it's injuries, sometimes it's ownership not providing necessary support. But I don't understand how it can be on underperforming players but not the person in charge of personnel. Particularly over multiple seasons.... why are players who don't live up to their potential being brought back? The only excuse for not moving a player who doesn't live up to his potential is being stuck with a bad contract, which again is on the GM. If it's a matter of not having the resources to get the players you need or a matter of not winning the McDavid, Crosby,Ovechkin et al lottery, then you could call it bad fortune and say it's not Army's fault. That would be a reasonable argument. But if it's a matter talented players who just can't put it together, that's GM all the way.bradleygt89 wrote:We may not have lost to the best team which won the Final, but we did lose to several WC championship teams: SJ, Nashville.
Besides the Kings, I thought the Hawks beat us in route to a Cup?
And if winning the Cup and playoffs is your judgement, even with all those stats you threw out, let's put them in context vs his competition, and I'd bet he's in the to 5-10 of all GMs in that time.
Lastly, sure DA is accountable, but he's also been proactive in adjusting his roster to find the best team, for both regular and post season.
Final: DA ain't perfect and deserves some criticism. But to act like he's more responsible than the players on the ice who don't live up to their potential, I'd say more falls on the players, then the coaching, then the GM.
No it doesn't. See bolded above.39hurricane wrote:This argument completely discards the draft. The Pens and the Hawks rode very high draft picks in Crosby Malkin, Toews, Kane, all the way to multiple championships.insideout wrote:If you're pointing fingers, underperforming players = GM. Sometimes it's coaching, sometimes it's bad luck or bad fortune, sometimes it's injuries, sometimes it's ownership not providing necessary support. But I don't understand how it can be on underperforming players but not the person in charge of personnel. Particularly over multiple seasons.... why are players who don't live up to their potential being brought back? The only excuse for not moving a player who doesn't live up to his potential is being stuck with a bad contract, which again is on the GM. If it's a matter of not having the resources to get the players you need or a matter of not winning the McDavid, Crosby,Ovechkin et al lottery, then you could call it bad fortune and say it's not Army's fault. That would be a reasonable argument. But if it's a matter talented players who just can't put it together, that's GM all the way.bradleygt89 wrote:We may not have lost to the best team which won the Final, but we did lose to several WC championship teams: SJ, Nashville.
Besides the Kings, I thought the Hawks beat us in route to a Cup?
And if winning the Cup and playoffs is your judgement, even with all those stats you threw out, let's put them in context vs his competition, and I'd bet he's in the to 5-10 of all GMs in that time.
Lastly, sure DA is accountable, but he's also been proactive in adjusting his roster to find the best team, for both regular and post season.
Final: DA ain't perfect and deserves some criticism. But to act like he's more responsible than the players on the ice who don't live up to their potential, I'd say more falls on the players, then the coaching, then the GM.
Boy, that was a fun read for a Blues fan. To further your summary, Berglund is only getting worse and should probably only be counted on in a defensive role. Sobotka is just awful, and hopefully the Sabres can flip him at the deadline. Author argued that including those two in the trade took the trade from "meh" to "bad" from a Sabres perspective. At least they've got Buffalo wings!Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:Piece on The Athletic from the Sabres side of the ROR trade. He also jumps into some advance stats that show how how unimpactful Berglund and more so Sobotka are.
"When the news came down that Ryan O’Reilly had been traded, I was very interested to see the return. The rumored big name prospects (Jordan Kyrou, Robert Thomas, second and 13th in the OHL in primary points per game respectively) were not coming to Buffalo. Neither was Robby Fabbri, who had some stellar production early on but who also has had two knee injuries. He could have come cheaply and with much more potential than either Vladimir Sobotka or Patrik Berglund, who ended up being part of the deal.
The entire return was merited a “meh” reaction. It’s akin to trading three guys from your bench to get a stud player in fantasy sports; it’s a couple of dimes and nickels for a dollar. Maybe Tage Thompson is a quarter."
https://theathletic.com/425632/2018/07/ ... a-or-both/
So you think Army should tank the team 5 or 6 years in a row for the high draft picks?insideout wrote:No it doesn't. See bolded above.39hurricane wrote:This argument completely discards the draft. The Pens and the Hawks rode very high draft picks in Crosby Malkin, Toews, Kane, all the way to multiple championships.insideout wrote:
If you're pointing fingers, underperforming players = GM. Sometimes it's coaching, sometimes it's bad luck or bad fortune, sometimes it's injuries, sometimes it's ownership not providing necessary support. But I don't understand how it can be on underperforming players but not the person in charge of personnel. Particularly over multiple seasons.... why are players who don't live up to their potential being brought back? The only excuse for not moving a player who doesn't live up to his potential is being stuck with a bad contract, which again is on the GM. If it's a matter of not having the resources to get the players you need or a matter of not winning the McDavid, Crosby,Ovechkin et al lottery, then you could call it bad fortune and say it's not Army's fault. That would be a reasonable argument. But if it's a matter talented players who just can't put it together, that's GM all the way.
No, I'm just pointing out that my argument does not discard the draft.39hurricane wrote:So you think Army should tank the team 5 or 6 years in a row for the high draft picks?insideout wrote:No it doesn't. See bolded above.39hurricane wrote:
This argument completely discards the draft. The Pens and the Hawks rode very high draft picks in Crosby Malkin, Toews, Kane, all the way to multiple championships.
O'Reilly can definitely help the PP in a big way but most of that is going to fall on Yeo and the coaches. They need to overhaul it.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:Evan Sporer goes pretty in-depth on why he thinks ROR will fix the Blues PP woes and possibly be a top PP unit: https://theathletic.com/448966/2018/08/ ... ower-play/
A super good read for the hockey nerds that want to do the deep dive with charts, pictures, videos.
Here's a couple of tidbits.
O’Reilly won 210 power-play faceoffs last season, most in the NHL. Of all skaters who took at least 100 power-play faceoffs, he had the seventh-best winning percentage at 61.8-percent. Entries are emphasized in this phase of the game, and considering it begins with an offensive zone start and a chance to immediately gain possession, it’s one of the few areas where faceoffs actually matter. Schenn, who took the majority of the faceoffs for PP1, won 102 draws and lost 99. Schwartz went 8-8, Sobotka 12-12 and Steen 4-5. So power-play faceoffs for the Blues’ top unit were essentially a coin flip.
In terms of generating shot volume on the power play, St. Louis was 25th in the NHL last season, averaging 98.83 attempts per 60 minutes of power-play time. Comparatively, the Sabres with O’Reilly on the ice averaged more than 116 attempts per 60 minutes, the highest of any Buffalo skater.
It can't really get any worse.NHLTIM wrote: O'Reilly can definitely help the PP in a big way but most of that is going to fall on Yeo and the coaches. They need to overhaul it.
Yeo has failed miserably on the PP throughout his career. I hope he at least has the sense to put it in the hands of the right person(s).NHLTIM wrote:O'Reilly can definitely help the PP in a big way but most of that is going to fall on Yeo and the coaches. They need to overhaul it.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:Evan Sporer goes pretty in-depth on why he thinks ROR will fix the Blues PP woes and possibly be a top PP unit: https://theathletic.com/448966/2018/08/ ... ower-play/
A super good read for the hockey nerds that want to do the deep dive with charts, pictures, videos.
Here's a couple of tidbits.
O’Reilly won 210 power-play faceoffs last season, most in the NHL. Of all skaters who took at least 100 power-play faceoffs, he had the seventh-best winning percentage at 61.8-percent. Entries are emphasized in this phase of the game, and considering it begins with an offensive zone start and a chance to immediately gain possession, it’s one of the few areas where faceoffs actually matter. Schenn, who took the majority of the faceoffs for PP1, won 102 draws and lost 99. Schwartz went 8-8, Sobotka 12-12 and Steen 4-5. So power-play faceoffs for the Blues’ top unit were essentially a coin flip.
In terms of generating shot volume on the power play, St. Louis was 25th in the NHL last season, averaging 98.83 attempts per 60 minutes of power-play time. Comparatively, the Sabres with O’Reilly on the ice averaged more than 116 attempts per 60 minutes, the highest of any Buffalo skater.
If this power play stinks, the leash will be very short on Yeo. This team must win and win now.Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:The Blues were basically 50% on faceoffs on the PP. You can't get any set plays, you can't get any quick chances doing that.
The article also touches on how they did a bad job of funneling pucks to Tarasenko on the PP. Which could explain his dip in numbers and the bad PP as well.
You haven't heard The Dubs' or Jan & Dean's versions?T.C. wrote:i think Huey Lewis is more appropriate for these two: "...(s)he's hot & cold..."bradleygt89 wrote:Heart and soul, I fell in love with youstlblues1226 wrote:Here are some of my favorites from the HFBoards link:
And I stopped at around page 16 or so. Pretty entertaining.
Heart and soul, the way a fool would do, madly
Because you held me tight
And stole a kiss in the night
Heart and soul, I begged to be adored
Lost control, and tumbled overboard, gladly
That magic night we kissed
There in the moon mist
Oh! but your lips were thrilling, much too thrilling
Never before were mine so strangely willing
Read more: Hoagy Carmichael - Heart And Soul Lyrics | MetroLyrics