Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#151
NHLTIM wrote:
usmcaaron wrote:Not related to Tage Thompson sass, but I like this quote from Pierre Lebrun in his new article on The Athletic:
From the Blues’ perspective, there’s a handful of GMs in this league that are unafraid to make bold move after bold move: I’d put Armstrong in that group along with Doug Wilson (Sharks), David Poile (Predators), Bob Murray (Ducks) and Steve Yzerman (Lightning). It doesn’t mean their trades always work, but their level of comfort in rolling the dice on roster-shaking moves has set them apart over the past several years.
For all the Army haters out there (less around here, more in The Asylum), this is exactly what I think you want from your team's GM. This quote puts him up there w/ some of the best in the league, because he's not afraid to go big to improve his team. Of course he's not w/out faults, but coupled with a solid scouting staff, there's not much else you can ask for, & just further signifies that he is the right man to lead the Blues, IMO.
I don’t think there is any doubt that Army has shown he will make huge moves. My biggest issue is that he hold onto guys too long....too much loyalty.
I hope he’s got one surprise move lined up.
Started with Hitch. He cried when he had to fire him even though it was long an obvious decision.
Just a Klim Kostin fan account

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#152
usmcaaron wrote:Not related to Tage Thompson sass, but I like this quote from Pierre Lebrun in his new article on The Athletic:
From the Blues’ perspective, there’s a handful of GMs in this league that are unafraid to make bold move after bold move: I’d put Armstrong in that group along with Doug Wilson (Sharks), David Poile (Predators), Bob Murray (Ducks) and Steve Yzerman (Lightning). It doesn’t mean their trades always work, but their level of comfort in rolling the dice on roster-shaking moves has set them apart over the past several years.
For all the Army haters out there (less around here, more in The Asylum), this is exactly what I think you want from your team's GM. This quote puts him up there w/ some of the best in the league, because he's not afraid to go big to improve his team. Of course he's not w/out faults, but coupled with a solid scouting staff, there's not much else you can ask for, & just further signifies that he is the right man to lead the Blues, IMO.
Army hate is confused with performance. If I screw up at my job, I get an earful from my boss. He doesn't stop and think, well, I'll give Bill till the end of the week to do something, or I'll give him 6 months. That's life, you're always judged on your last performance. The road to where we are today was shaky. Where DA put the Blues took outside help to right a wrong. But he pulled it off and I applaud him. I've given DA plenty of credit and was 100% in his corner back in the day. But shit changes and the Blues had garbage backing up. But Doug is pulling it off and the Blues are in fantastic shape right now. That's great stuff. What cracks me up is apparently Doug got interviewed from Cusamano today (haven't heard it yet) but Doug even said on the radio, at 2 O'clock everyone hated me on the Forums and then by 7:00 people loved me. It's funny, but the Blues brass do read these threads and keep up on the fans reactions.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#153
The thing with 'bad trades/contracts' is that often you don't KNOW that they'll be 'bad' when you first decide to take that risk. Lehtera was a 6'2" 200 pivot who had 14 goals and 44 points in his first season, winning over 51% of his faceoffs, and looked like he was adapting perfectly to the North American game, even with some improvement possible. His contract would have been entirely justified if he'd continued to put up those kinds of contributions. It was certainly a risk to sign him to a 3 year extension right away, but I wouldn't call it a 'mistake.' It didn't pan out, and Armstrong was still able to recover from it.

Again with the Berglund contract. Less the $4 mil for a bona-fide 20 goal scorer is not bad at all, the only thing I really disliked about that contract was the length. But DA was again able to use that asset to get something that improves the team even more.

Sobotka was another series of calculated risks, IMHO, rather than mistakes. Should the Blues have coughed up a couple hundred thou more in his contract negotiations 4 years ago to keep him from going to the KHL? Should they have guessed that he wouldn't be the same player coming back that he was when he left? It's easy to say in hindsight, but at the time, those are the kinds of risks that GMs take.

As far as being 'too loyal' to his people (players, coaches, staff, etc), I'm not sure that's entirely a bad thing. I don't think the Lamoriello style would go over very well here in STL, with either the team or the fans. I could see him being a LITTLE tougher, though, but when you're the GM of a middling-to-good team that's rarely, if ever, been considered a perennial Stanley Cup favorite, you can't exactly be a total hard-ass.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#155
RAFritchey wrote:The thing with 'bad trades/contracts' is that often you don't KNOW that they'll be 'bad' when you first decide to take that risk. Lehtera was a 6'2" 200 pivot who had 14 goals and 44 points in his first season, winning over 51% of his faceoffs, and looked like he was adapting perfectly to the North American game, even with some improvement possible. His contract would have been entirely justified if he'd continued to put up those kinds of contributions. It was certainly a risk to sign him to a 3 year extension right away, but I wouldn't call it a 'mistake.' It didn't pan out, and Armstrong was still able to recover from it.

Again with the Berglund contract. Less the $4 mil for a bona-fide 20 goal scorer is not bad at all, the only thing I really disliked about that contract was the length. But DA was again able to use that asset to get something that improves the team even more.

Sobotka was another series of calculated risks, IMHO, rather than mistakes. Should the Blues have coughed up a couple hundred thou more in his contract negotiations 4 years ago to keep him from going to the KHL? Should they have guessed that he wouldn't be the same player coming back that he was when he left? It's easy to say in hindsight, but at the time, those are the kinds of risks that GMs take.

As far as being 'too loyal' to his people (players, coaches, staff, etc), I'm not sure that's entirely a bad thing. I don't think the Lamoriello style would go over very well here in STL, with either the team or the fans. I could see him being a LITTLE tougher, though, but when you're the GM of a middling-to-good team that's rarely, if ever, been considered a perennial Stanley Cup favorite, you can't exactly be a total hard-ass.
There was zero reason to sign Lehtera when the Blues signed him. He'd played 1 season. That was the problem. He thought he was being slick locking him up super early, thinking it'd be a bargain down the road. Swing and a miss.
Just a Klim Kostin fan account

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#157
Dave's a mess wrote:Wow, I picked the wrong time to do the dishes! I saw a tweet from JR talking about "the package the Blues gave up for ROR" and thought it was typo implying it wasn't enough and someone else got him. When was the last time this team was legitimately deep down the middle? Woooo!
Ummmmm... Red Berenson, Phil Goyette and Frank St. Marseille.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#158
NHLTIM wrote:<snip> I hope he’s got one surprise move lined up.
I'm not going to lie. There is a part of me that really hopes that Army trades Steen and a prospect to a team that needs a vet like him for a 1st Round pick so we can flip that pick to Ottawa along with Gunnar and Parayko for Karlsson. We'd need to have a talk with his agent and get him to agree to an extension as a condition of the deal, and I'd like to sign a veteran 4C like Letestu, but could you imagine?

Fabbri-ROR-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Perron-Thomas-Bozak
Soshnikov-Letestu-Jaskin (Sundqvist/Thorburn)

Edmundson-Karlsson
Dunn-Pietrangelo
JBo-Schmaltz (Bortuzzo)

Allen/Husso

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#159
BillP wrote:
usmcaaron wrote:Not related to Tage Thompson sass, but I like this quote from Pierre Lebrun in his new article on The Athletic:
From the Blues’ perspective, there’s a handful of GMs in this league that are unafraid to make bold move after bold move: I’d put Armstrong in that group along with Doug Wilson (Sharks), David Poile (Predators), Bob Murray (Ducks) and Steve Yzerman (Lightning). It doesn’t mean their trades always work, but their level of comfort in rolling the dice on roster-shaking moves has set them apart over the past several years.
For all the Army haters out there (less around here, more in The Asylum), this is exactly what I think you want from your team's GM. This quote puts him up there w/ some of the best in the league, because he's not afraid to go big to improve his team. Of course he's not w/out faults, but coupled with a solid scouting staff, there's not much else you can ask for, & just further signifies that he is the right man to lead the Blues, IMO.
Army hate is confused with performance. If I screw up at my job, I get an earful from my boss. He doesn't stop and think, well, I'll give Bill till the end of the week to do something, or I'll give him 6 months. That's life, you're always judged on your last performance. The road to where we are today was shaky. Where DA put the Blues took outside help to right a wrong. But he pulled it off and I applaud him. I've given DA plenty of credit and was 100% in his corner back in the day. But shit changes and the Blues had garbage backing up. But Doug is pulling it off and the Blues are in fantastic shape right now. That's great stuff. What cracks me up is apparently Doug got interviewed from Cusamano today (haven't heard it yet) but Doug even said on the radio, at 2 O'clock everyone hated me on the Forums and then by 7:00 people loved me. It's funny, but the Blues brass do read these threads and keep up on the fans reactions.
Absolutely this. I don't judge Army on the last trade, the last season, whatever. I judge him on the entire body of work, and that body of work across 13 seasons and two franchises says "great regular seasons, shitty postseasons." That body of work says, "declining performance as time goes on" and it's something that have gotten other GMs and coaches fired in much less time.

He's in his 8th season here so it's likely he'll get a rebound off last season (unless guys crap the bed being content or some other part of the team blows up), but the question remains: what exactly has Armstrong learned that's going to make him better at building a Cup-winning team? Because for all the trades he's allegedly won, it's resulted in one (1) conference finals appearance that also saw the drain of a pretty substantial amount of talent - some of which has gone on to see greater success elsewhere - and last season's debacle where we went marching in with an already thin group of forwards that were further depleted by (inevitable) injuries (even if not expected to the magnitude we saw). If anything, last year's team overachieved courtesy of the play of the 1st and 4th lines (because the 2nd was mediocre, and the 3rd was total and complete crap) and Hutton's play in net; it could have just as easily been an 80-85 point team as it could have been a 105-point or better team.

And Army is exactly right about his "hated at 2pm, loved at 7pm" comment. He knows damn good and well that as long as he moves chairs around and gets people excited, his job is safe among the masses - actual performance be damned. He's counting on that. As long as everyone is thrilled with making the playoffs and not thoroughly pissed off at him for postseason failures, he'll be safe and secure in his job for as long as he wants. The question is how long fans are going to be thrilled with that; so far, it's "as long as he's making deals that we're winning."

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#160
NHLTIM wrote:I didn't care for the way they handled Thompson at all last year but I also realize he was given opportunities and didn't take advantage of them. Hope things work out for him in Buffalo but I hated that pick at the time....always thought it was a wasted pick.
Hopefully the coaching staff learned a lesson and won't make the same mistake with Thomas and Kyrou this season.
Agree with both of those. Thompson should have been sitting in the AHL all season long; he wasn't, and I suspect there was little effort to really develop him at the NHL level. (Which goes to my ongoing complaint about the Blues and the lack of real player development for a number of years - something that Yeo isn't helping.) That said, I didn't like the pick at the time and didn't like it any more as time went on. Liked it lots better than I liked us taking Schmaltz in 2012, but it's kind of like saying you'll swap taking a liner in the nads for a fastball in the ribs.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#161
BillP wrote:
usmcaaron wrote:Not related to Tage Thompson sass, but I like this quote from Pierre Lebrun in his new article on The Athletic:
From the Blues’ perspective, there’s a handful of GMs in this league that are unafraid to make bold move after bold move: I’d put Armstrong in that group along with Doug Wilson (Sharks), David Poile (Predators), Bob Murray (Ducks) and Steve Yzerman (Lightning). It doesn’t mean their trades always work, but their level of comfort in rolling the dice on roster-shaking moves has set them apart over the past several years.
For all the Army haters out there (less around here, more in The Asylum), this is exactly what I think you want from your team's GM. This quote puts him up there w/ some of the best in the league, because he's not afraid to go big to improve his team. Of course he's not w/out faults, but coupled with a solid scouting staff, there's not much else you can ask for, & just further signifies that he is the right man to lead the Blues, IMO.
Army hate is confused with performance. If I screw up at my job, I get an earful from my boss. He doesn't stop and think, well, I'll give Bill till the end of the week to do something, or I'll give him 6 months. That's life, you're always judged on your last performance. The road to where we are today was shaky. Where DA put the Blues took outside help to right a wrong. But he pulled it off and I applaud him. I've given DA plenty of credit and was 100% in his corner back in the day. But shit changes and the Blues had garbage backing up. But Doug is pulling it off and the Blues are in fantastic shape right now. That's great stuff. What cracks me up is apparently Doug got interviewed from Cusamano today (haven't heard it yet) but Doug even said on the radio, at 2 O'clock everyone hated me on the Forums and then by 7:00 people loved me. It's funny, but the Blues brass do read these threads and keep up on the fans reactions.
I hope he reads this forum and realizes we are the fans that escaped the asylum over at stltoday. We are passionate, get emotional, and go overboard with our opinions sometimes (I know I do anyway), but in the end we make this place seem like Mr. Roger's Neighborhood compared to that other place. :D

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#162
barcthespark wrote:
BillP wrote:
usmcaaron wrote:Not related to Tage Thompson sass, but I like this quote from Pierre Lebrun in his new article on The Athletic:



For all the Army haters out there (less around here, more in The Asylum), this is exactly what I think you want from your team's GM. This quote puts him up there w/ some of the best in the league, because he's not afraid to go big to improve his team. Of course he's not w/out faults, but coupled with a solid scouting staff, there's not much else you can ask for, & just further signifies that he is the right man to lead the Blues, IMO.
Army hate is confused with performance. If I screw up at my job, I get an earful from my boss. He doesn't stop and think, well, I'll give Bill till the end of the week to do something, or I'll give him 6 months. That's life, you're always judged on your last performance. The road to where we are today was shaky. Where DA put the Blues took outside help to right a wrong. But he pulled it off and I applaud him. I've given DA plenty of credit and was 100% in his corner back in the day. But shit changes and the Blues had garbage backing up. But Doug is pulling it off and the Blues are in fantastic shape right now. That's great stuff. What cracks me up is apparently Doug got interviewed from Cusamano today (haven't heard it yet) but Doug even said on the radio, at 2 O'clock everyone hated me on the Forums and then by 7:00 people loved me. It's funny, but the Blues brass do read these threads and keep up on the fans reactions.
I hope he reads this forum and realizes we are the fans that escaped the asylum over at stltoday. We are passionate, get emotional, and go overboard with our opinions sometimes (I know I do anyway), but in the end we make this place seem like Mr. Roger's Neighborhood compared to that other place. :D
Fuck that shithole!

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#164
Mud wrote:
NHLTIM wrote:I didn't care for the way they handled Thompson at all last year but I also realize he was given opportunities and didn't take advantage of them. Hope things work out for him in Buffalo but I hated that pick at the time....always thought it was a wasted pick.
Hopefully the coaching staff learned a lesson and won't make the same mistake with Thomas and Kyrou this season.
Agree with both of those. Thompson should have been sitting in the AHL all season long; he wasn't, and I suspect there was little effort to really develop him at the NHL level. (Which goes to my ongoing complaint about the Blues and the lack of real player development for a number of years - something that Yeo isn't helping.) That said, I didn't like the pick at the time and didn't like it any more as time went on. Liked it lots better than I liked us taking Schmaltz in 2012, but it's kind of like saying you'll swap taking a liner in the nads for a fastball in the ribs.
Not sure I agree with that. I feel the Blues have been pretty good at developing their draft picks lately.

The Blues got a good read on Thompson last season, and they felt he was expendable in the right deal.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#165
BillP wrote:
usmcaaron wrote:Not related to Tage Thompson sass, but I like this quote from Pierre Lebrun in his new article on The Athletic:
From the Blues’ perspective, there’s a handful of GMs in this league that are unafraid to make bold move after bold move: I’d put Armstrong in that group along with Doug Wilson (Sharks), David Poile (Predators), Bob Murray (Ducks) and Steve Yzerman (Lightning). It doesn’t mean their trades always work, but their level of comfort in rolling the dice on roster-shaking moves has set them apart over the past several years.
For all the Army haters out there (less around here, more in The Asylum), this is exactly what I think you want from your team's GM. This quote puts him up there w/ some of the best in the league, because he's not afraid to go big to improve his team. Of course he's not w/out faults, but coupled with a solid scouting staff, there's not much else you can ask for, & just further signifies that he is the right man to lead the Blues, IMO.
Army hate is confused with performance. If I screw up at my job, I get an earful from my boss. He doesn't stop and think, well, I'll give Bill till the end of the week to do something, or I'll give him 6 months. That's life, you're always judged on your last performance. The road to where we are today was shaky. Where DA put the Blues took outside help to right a wrong. But he pulled it off and I applaud him. I've given DA plenty of credit and was 100% in his corner back in the day. But shit changes and the Blues had garbage backing up. But Doug is pulling it off and the Blues are in fantastic shape right now. That's great stuff. What cracks me up is apparently Doug got interviewed from Cusamano today (haven't heard it yet) but Doug even said on the radio, at 2 O'clock everyone hated me on the Forums and then by 7:00 people loved me. It's funny, but the Blues brass do read these threads and keep up on the fans reactions.
I suppose I could have looked at Sobotka, lehtera, and Berglund as trading pieces all along, instead of assuming what DA was thinking.

It's fair to assume on my part that I was harsh on Army. I suppose Allen is good enough to also be a trade piece if Army gets that poker face on, and Miller's him on someone else.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#166
I like TT. I think he's going to be a good player. If he thinks the effort he put out last season was going to get him more minutes, well then he has some growing up to do. He will get more ice time in Buf, but he will also be -30 this year.

Doug Army is a monster. I have no doubt Tyler Bozak was a morning 3 year 15 million dollar bluff to loosen up buffalo's GM. Do NOT play cards with DA.

Kudos to Tom Stillman for stepping up and paying the 7.5 (It's actually not a big deal since they owe him like ten bucks for the rest of the season).

So happy Checketts Leeery Walmart Caron are not in charge of this team.

I don't know if we are cup contenders??? I think were behind Winnipeg and Nashville, going into the playoffs somewhere in the middle.
Last edited by 39hurricane on Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#168
barnburner wrote:Impossible to rate this club in terms of being contenders, because we have to wait and see if our goalie is going to go on vacation again or not.
I'm hoping Russo gets a lot of work in training camp and plays so well that Army has to keep him. Allen scares the hell out of me.
If you can get something for him, fine....but I'd give him away at this point. Tired of his January vacations.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#169
Turk Sanderson wrote:
barnburner wrote:Impossible to rate this club in terms of being contenders, because we have to wait and see if our goalie is going to go on vacation again or not.
I'm hoping Russo gets a lot of work in training camp and plays so well that Army has to keep him. Allen scares the hell out of me.
If you can get something for him, fine....but I'd give him away at this point. Tired of his January vacations.
Is there a very good, but also shaky goaler out there? Change of scenery trade for both sides?

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#170
39hurricane wrote:
Turk Sanderson wrote:
barnburner wrote:Impossible to rate this club in terms of being contenders, because we have to wait and see if our goalie is going to go on vacation again or not.
I'm hoping Russo gets a lot of work in training camp and plays so well that Army has to keep him. Allen scares the hell out of me.
If you can get something for him, fine....but I'd give him away at this point. Tired of his January vacations.
Is there a very good, but also shaky goaler out there? Change of scenery trade for both sides?
Cam Talbot is the only one that comes to mind
Just a Klim Kostin fan account

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#171
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:
39hurricane wrote:
Turk Sanderson wrote: If you can get something for him, fine....but I'd give him away at this point. Tired of his January vacations.
Is there a very good, but also shaky goaler out there? Change of scenery trade for both sides?
Cam Talbot is the only one that comes to mind
Could work. Allen, Steen, CP55 for RNH and Talbot.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#172
39hurricane wrote:
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:
39hurricane wrote:
Is there a very good, but also shaky goaler out there? Change of scenery trade for both sides?
Cam Talbot is the only one that comes to mind
Could work. Allen, Steen, CP55 for RNH and Talbot.
That package isnt enough for Parayko by himself

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#173
barnburner wrote:Impossible to rate this club in terms of being contenders, because we have to wait and see if our goalie is going to go on vacation again or not.
I'm hoping Russo gets a lot of work in training camp and plays so well that Army has to keep him. Allen scares the hell out of me.
Husso probably needs another year in the AHL. He put in a solid season last year, but another would help him more than playing backup in the NHL. JMO

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#174
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:
Turk Sanderson wrote: Fuck that shithole!
tenor.gif
fantastic.

i don't know how you can judge army on what happens in the post season. like the president's trophy winning blues in 1999-2000 getting swept in the first round - was that a poorly-assembled team? if the Cup was won on paper, we wouldn't need to play the games, and we certainly wouldn't have a story like VGK.

Re: Confirmed: Blues Trade for ROR

#175
T.C. wrote:
Dread_Pirate_Westley wrote:
Turk Sanderson wrote: Fuck that shithole!
tenor.gif
fantastic.

i don't know how you can judge army on what happens in the post season. like the president's trophy winning blues in 1999-2000 getting swept in the first round - was that a poorly-assembled team? if the Cup was won on paper, we wouldn't need to play the games, and we certainly wouldn't have a story like VGK.
It is a results driven league. Look at Ovie. If he never won the cup, there would be a stain on his legacy. People always talked about how he could never win the cup. It isn't fair, but it is how the world works.